2024 US Presidential Election

[Thumpalumpacus]

I get your number one, and I think it's wholly wrong.  If you want someone to blame for the political ills of the country, perhaps you should blame the people who've voted for it?   Whether they conceptualize it as voting for the lessers or because they wanted the thing itself - this is the result - and ofc it is, it was always going to be.  When you vote for the lesser of two evils the only possible outcome is evil.

You realize that not everyone votes the same way. Right? Right?

Your two is meh.  Both parties would like to strip us of rights, and prevent us from having meaningful protections..because they don't work for us.

Oh, really? This is more facile, and wrong-headed, false equivalence. Simply repeating the same vapid charge does not make it true.

 They both work for their corporate donors out of campaign necessity.  I disagree with this no matter who's doing it, as I've probably made clear over my time here.  This is not a false equivalence, it's a fact that even the reps themselves acknowledge.

That they both are beholden to donors is irrefutable, sure. But to pretend therefore that they both are equally committed to repression is nonsense and you know it.

 As I mentioned, they're both garbage -in their own unique ways-.  Think about the absurdity of this, though, you're giving me shit for not voting for politicians whose politics I disagree with, and tossing out slogans that pretty clearly don't apply to my own objections to the candidates and parties on offer.    

I'm giving you shit for not finding a politician you can vote for -- or lacking that, becoming that politician yourself. I have little respect for those who complain about the current state of affairs and refuse to do anything about it.

I haven't done -anything- to effect the changes I was referring to - that's my entire point.  If you want to point the finger you'll have to point elsewhere.  I've been busy trying to do nice shit that I can accomplish without appealing to the chief political officers of the corporate fiefdoms of america.  From this end, it's like watching people stuck in an abusive relationship.  You keep thinking that if you just did better he'd stop beating the shit out of you.  The whole bit seems like that.  We're being told we have to do better for our [insert persuasion here] reps instead of them having to do better for us.  You all have moments of clarity in between elections where you realize that this is what it is, but come campaigning season you're in love again and his bad behavior is all someone else's fault.  Especially, apparently, the people who have no interest in such a relationship.

Like the hobbits in LotR, sticking to your own little garden and hoping the shitshow will pass you by, overlooking you, is probably not the smartest course of action.

If we're at a point where insisting on better is the enemy of better, we should not expect any better.  On a purely practical note...if you want more independents, undecideds, and previous non voters to climb in your tent, perhaps you shouldn't blame them for your own parties (and the other parties) cockups?  Just fucking own it, and do better?  Or is that also the enemy of the better?

You're misstating my point. You are demanding the solution be perfect, and that if it isn't, it is equally evil. It's clear I think that's a load of horseshit, but don't you worry -- those of us with the spine to fight it out will keep doing so.

[The Grand Nudger]

There we have it. You think that whatever better I have in mind must be perfection, which is contemporary shorthand for impossible...though I do suspect this is more an issue of generalities and not anything specific to anything I advocate for or believe in. I'm pretty one dimensional there. Local and sustainable industry and accountable representation will not be perfect - but I do think it would be better. It's the only fopudnation, imo, that even allows us the leeway to handle stickier issues. My main gripe with dems (even more progressive dems) is coopting that message because it's a demographic winner, and then delivering precisely the opposite. I don't actually think...and have made it pretty clear, that dems and republicans are broadly identical in their idiocy - but that part really is equivalent on both sides.

I actually talk alot with the wife about getting into politics, which is basically poison to me so consider that. I'd foolishly assumed (because, like I said before, I've always wanted to believe the lies we tell ourselves about our politics) that the smartest people in the room were in charge. That we were, in the end, some sort of meritocracy. I just assumed that with the sorts of skeletons I have in my closet there's no way I could win an office that people actually voted for. Turns out I was wrong about one thing but probably not the other. That's not to say that I actually could win anything with those skeletons...I couldn't, just that they don't really matter in the face of corporate backing..which I certainly couldn't get, lol. Worst of both worlds really - which is the inevitable result of repeatedly voting for the lesser evil......

But go ahead, continue giving me shit for not searching the wasteland for a politician that doesn't exist, and for accepting the fact that I will never be in charge of anything because I'm wholly against the very system that grants such indulgences to it's unofficial employees (and, not for nothing, that I probably shouldn't be in charge of anything). I mean, I actually have made my own own political opinions my life and my business. I've been working for commissions and boards and granted research projects and running a non profit. Whatever, after election season is over we'll commiserate in agreement, again, like always. It just stings, lol, every fours years, to have to go through this same bit of theater with people I respect and understand and wish could grant me the same.

I strongly believe in free markets, small government, and the second amendment. I want nuclear power, fiscal conservatism, and social progressivism. I agree with america first and that we are -and should be- a global police force. I fundamentally disagree with affirmative action and also believe we should have single payer healthcare. The reason that I don't have anyone to vote for, is because I stand astride of the issues that our political machine has made into wedges to the detriment of all of us...and I'm not credulous enough to believe that I could turn that around at this very late stage in that game. It's negative partisanship all the way, and that doesn't work for me or for those goals that I think are worth pursuing. I get that everyone votes "a different way" that our motivations are complex - but I know that we cannot proceed towards the better if, in the aggregate, we disagree about literally everything...if, for no other reason, because it's associated with The Other Guy. I'm part of the growing number of americans who believe that our current political moment ends in civil war - though I don't think it will be like our previous civil war.

It's going to be ieds in the streets and cells of seemingly upstanding americans murdering non combatants. I think the reds will start it, but I don't think that the reds have a monopoly on violence (and there again I differ from both political parties). Each of them thinks that violence is not an acceptable answer...but only to their own policies. I think that, ultimately, violence will be the only practical answer to both of their bad policies. You don't get out from under hostage taking warlords by asking nicely -or...fucking voting..... Lean into all of our positive interactions and the vast gulf of things we have in common and try to see it from my point of view without the canned shit, right? I'm not miffed that you vote for what you believe in (if that's even what you do or can do) despite the fucked up nature of our politics. End of the day, I think you should do that, if that's an option for you. I think the white supremacists should vote for white supremacy, too, if that's what they want. I've heard all of this exact same stuff from them, too, btw. They're not the problem. I'm the problem, for not voting for them. I'm miffed that you assign responsibility to the failures of that process to people who are not involved in it. It's ridiculous. Like accusing a witness of the crime. The people who accept this state of affairs and go along with it - for whatever complicated reason, are the coconspirators for better and for worse - not the people who are non participators for exactly this reason. I refuse to give our current form of government the patina of legitimacy through my vote. I know you can get that, and get it in a way that isn't dirtbag shit, lol.

[Thumpalumpacus]

But go ahead, continue giving me shit for not searching the wasteland for a politician that doesn't exist, and for accepting the fact that I will never be in charge of anything because I'm wholly against the very system that grants such indulgences to it's unofficial employees.  I mean, I actually have made my own own political opinions my life and my business.  I've been working for commissions and boards and granted research projects and running a non profit.  Whatever, after election season is over we'll commiserate in agreement, again, like always.  It just stings, lol, every fours years, to have to go through this same bit of theater with people I respect and understand and wish could grant me the same.

I respect you immensely, bud. I just disagree with you vociferously on this matter. I've never seen an instance when doing nothing accomplished something.

[The Grand Nudger]

Neither of us are doing nothing, I'm sure. Here's a point I bet we could find wholehearted agreement on. My distrust and distaste for the us government has been very well earned by the us government, across both aisles. We have a party of international finance, and a party of continental theocracy. Neither of these are acceptable candidates for -my- vote. I think everyone here knows me enough to understand why without resorting to partisan nonsense.

I know, I know, there's always the fringe options. A green party full of luddites and fucking russians....and a libertarian party full of weed smoking racists. You can't see me voting for those either, can you...lol.

[LinuxGal]

Toldja

https://www.semafor.com/article/10/06/20...iety-grows

Team Trump readies attacks on RFK Jr. as spoiler anxiety grows

[The Grand Nudger]

Yeah it's the other spoiler campaign to worry about. No Lables. Harlan Crows dark money chop shop for pretending to be non partisan and learning to do other things really good too. It's not even that they want trump, just that they want those sweet sweet tax breaks and figure there's a better shot with trump than with biden. I'm not sure why they think that, but okay.

Meanwhile, the narrative that (I think) will be a critical issue for the biden admin is starting to get buzz. Biden campaigned on a return to normal, and was very explicit and charged about border policy in particular. What actually happened, is biden kept trump policies in place. I'm going to really enjoy whatever bullshit they come up with to spin that one. If we get the gobsmackingly racist bullshit either way, that can't really be a biden selling point. It's his gitmo (which is also still open).

[The Grand Nudger]

The other issue that biden will get successfully attacked on in the general, imo, is that bidenomics is doing great, but hasn't quite trickled down to the plebes yet. Yeah, you heard me right, bidenomics is trickle down. Apparently the biden team was and remains super sensitive about this one.

[Thumpalumpacus]

The other issue that biden will get successfully attacked on in the general, imo, is that bidenomics is doing great, but hasn't quite trickled down to the plebes yet.  Yeah, you heard me right, bidenomics is trickle down.  Apparently the biden team was and remains super sensitive about this one.

They spent a few months flogging it, but inflation resulting in stagnant wages undercut their argument.

I think this upcoming election, like 2020, will be "I'm Trump"/"I'm not Trump" and little else. I still think Biden has an edge, because 1) women will be out in force due to the Dobbs decision, and 2) the insurrection attempt has alienated more than a few independents, which Trump will need.

I don't think any of the other GOP candidates have a chance unless and until Trump is behind bars -- and even then they'll have uphill sledding.

[The Grand Nudger]

Trumps never managed to convince the voters. He only needs to peel off some of bidens support to have the supremes come in and hand him the presidency. Maybe in his own fiefdom down there in florida. I know, I know...it's never happened before.



I don't think any of the other r candidates have a chance even if trump -is- behind bars. He'll run from prison and have some ghostwriter cobble up a book about his struggles.

[Thumpalumpacus]

He'll run from prison and have some ghostwriter cobble up a book about his struggles.

I know just the guy for the job.