France is Simply Saying Non to the Abayah

[Aegon]

I don’t think it is automatically or intrinsically wrong to attempt to suppress expression of specific religions.

Seriously? Seems like a slippery slope to me. Germany didn't go from treating the Jews perfectly one day to throwing them in gas chambers the next. They started discriminating against them in much smaller ways while hatred festered.

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

It’s not discrimination if it’s applied equally. I don’t see the problem with secular schools banning religious garb. If people want their kids to wear these things, enroll the children in religious schools. 

I’ll bet a shiny shilling that there’s not a madrasah in France that bans the headscarf.

Boru

[Thumpalumpacus]

I don’t think it is automatically or intrinsically wrong to attempt to suppress expression of specific religions.

I take it then that you wouldn't mind a theocracy persecuting you for being an atheist?

[The Grand Nudger]

I strongly suspect that you don't disagree with Anom. If a religion said we had to sacrifice a fresh virgin to the volcano every saturday - you're unlikely to object when the government mentions that would be murder and bans the expression of their religion.

Meanwhile, atheism, as you've had plenty of opportunities to tell people yourself, isn't a religion - so even if religious expression could be banned (and it can and it often is) that still wouldn't impact or be related to atheism.

Theocracy is banned, as an example, in the us - even though it's very much an expression of a major us religion.

[arewethereyet]

I'll bet all the money on the goddamn planet that France does not enforce the laws against Christian crosses, and that only Muslims will really need to abide by this requirement.

Well that would be profoundly racist wouldn’t it?
 
- I don’t think I agree with that. In US schools almost everyone is wearing large crosses etc. especially minority groups. So these and Jewish Kippas are to be banned.
 
Also, as a symbol, I have come to understand that the Hijap is simply bigger in size. And the message is much stronger. But that’s another issue, so I think they are absolutely right

Bold mine - Citation needed. 

This looks more like something pulled out of your ass than an actual fact.

Dafuq do you know about US schools?

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

While I think the local bans on the burkini were misguided, I think it’s important to remember that, when it comes to religious garb in state-funded schools, France is actually implementing what USians are always paying lip service to: the separation of church and state.

Boru

[Thumpalumpacus]

I strongly suspect that you don't disagree with Anom.  If a religion said we had to sacrifice a fresh virgin to the volcano every saturday - you're unlikely to object when the government mentions that would be murder and bans the expression of their religion.  

Meanwhile, atheism, as you've had plenty of opportunities to tell people yourself, isn't a religion - so even if religious expression could be banned (and it can and it often is) that still wouldn't impact or be related to atheism.

Theocracy is banned, as an example, in the us - even though it's very much an expression of a major us religion.

You're missing the point, which is that the freedom of conscience overlays both freedom of religion and freedom from religion -- your suspicions aside. I think repression solely on the basis of religion or its lack is wrong, and don't really appreciate you trying to tell me what my opinion is.

That shit is both rude, and revealing of your own incomprehension of my point.

[FrustratedFool]

It’s not discrimination if it’s applied equally. I don’t see the problem with secular schools banning religious garb. If people want their kids to wear these things, enroll the children in religious schools. 

I’ll bet a shiny shilling that there’s not a madrasah in France that bans the headscarf.

Boru

Is that a good thing, though?

Is it beneficial for society to have lots of religious schools specifically for Muslims, Christians, Jews etc and everyone else in state school?

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

It’s not discrimination if it’s applied equally. I don’t see the problem with secular schools banning religious garb. If people want their kids to wear these things, enroll the children in religious schools. 

I’ll bet a shiny shilling that there’s not a madrasah in France that bans the headscarf.

Boru

Is that a good thing, though?

Is it beneficial for society to have lots of religious schools specifically for Muslims, Christians, Jews etc and everyone else in state school?

France, like most countries, already has plenty of private religious schools. The collapse of society due to the presence of these schools is conspicuous by its absence.

Boru

[FrustratedFool]

Collapse is too strong.
But not be good for society seems a much more reasonable concern.

Consider, if all the Muslim girls now go to private religious schools, or home educated, what will be their life? I suspect they won't receive much if an education at all and may well be married somewhat early. In the UK teachers keep an eye out on Muslim girls for word of FGM, forced marriage, being shipped of to another country, and so on.

And what about all those Christians in evangelical or Catholic schools? Will they be taught evolution? Will they be shipped to conversion camps if they're gay?

I can't see much good coming from such things.