France is Simply Saying Non to the Abayah

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

Collapse is too strong.
But not be good for society seems a much more reasonable concern.

Consider, if all the Muslim girls now go to private religious schools, or home educated, what will be their life?  I suspect they won't receive much if an education at all and may well be married somewhat early.  In the UK teachers keep an eye out on Muslim girls for word of FGM, forced marriage, being shipped of to another country, and so on.  

And what about all those Christians in evangelical or Catholic schools?  Will they be taught evolution?  Will they be shipped to conversion camps if they're gay?  

I can't see much good coming from such things.

So, what's your solution? Outlaw religious freedom?

Boru

[FrustratedFool]

Banning religious garb in schools is already a restriction on religious freedom, so it's just a question of where would be best to draw the line. I'm fine with some restrictions, not with others.

In the UK we allow both private religious schools and home education, and religious garb in state schools. This has pros and cons.

In France, they allow private religious schools but ban religious garb in state schools. This has different pros and cons.

I could easily imagine a state which banned private religious and home education (isn't home ed already banned in Germany? I may be recalling that wrong) and also banned religious garb in state schools, same as I can imagine a state banning certain harmful religious practices, like FGM, infant male circumcision, halal/kosher meat, animal sacrifice, underage marriage, etc.

I think the UK liberal approach certainly the easiest, but it does lead to many unpleasant results. Perhaps we should slowly restrict religious harmful practices more, and separate church and state more as well. It's difficult because restrictions of religion have often led to terrible persecution in the past and that's not good either. Getting the balance right is hard.

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

Banning religious garb in schools is already a restriction on religious freedom, so it's just a question of where would be best to draw the line.  I'm fine with some restrictions, not with others.

In the UK we allow both private religious schools and home education, and religious garb in state schools.  This has pros and cons.

In France, they allow private religious schools but ban religious garb in state schools.  This has different pros and cons.

I could easily imagine a state which banned private religious and home education (isn't home ed already banned in Germany?  I may be recalling that wrong) and also banned religious garb in state schools, same as I can imagine a state banning certain harmful religious practices, like FGM, infant male circumcision, halal/kosher meat, animal sacrifice, underage marriage, etc.

I think the UK liberal approach certainly the easiest, but it does lead to many unpleasant results.  Perhaps we should slowly restrict religious harmful practices more, and separate church and state more as well.  It's difficult because restrictions of religion have often led to terrible persecution in the past and that's not good either.  Getting the balance right is hard.

When should we ban agnostic nihilism?

Boru

[FrustratedFool]

When it starts indoctrinating children with demonstrable falsehoods and mutilating the genitals of infants without medical cause. That sort of thing.

But I have nowhere called for any ideology to be banned. Merely certain practices. I could easily ask you in return when you want religious child sacrifice permitted and it'd be just as ridiculous.

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

When it starts indoctrinating children with demonstrable falsehoods and mutilating the genitals of infants without medical cause.  That sort of thing.

But I have nowhere called for any ideology to be banned.  Merely certain practices.  I could easily ask you in return when you want religious child sacrifice permitted and it'd be just as ridiculous.

We seem to have veered from the topic of religious garb in state-funded schools.

Boru

[FrustratedFool]

A little, but the issue became what restrictions on religious freedom are best for society, and that was clearly in the line of discussing the banning of religious garb in state schools.

I raised the point that banning religious garb in state schools whilst allowing private religious education could easily result in worse outcomes for both the religious children in question and for society as a whole. You then expanded the scope into other areas, and I responded.

To draw it back to the specific religious restriction in question, I'm starting to think that you either allow religious garb in schools (like the UK) or ban both religious garb and private education. A mix, like France, seems like it may only isolate children of religious parents more with some likely unpleasant consequences.

[Leonardo17]

[Leonardo17]

[Leonardo17]

[no one]

Let's just ban religion, problem solved.