The Kalam Cosmological argument.

[Pat Mustard]

Can you answer the question?

Can you and your flock prove jebus died for my sins, without using your stupid book?

Csn you point to where all the other gods are false and yours is real, and what confirms that?

Yes, we can. Consult the Secular Historian Josephus who writes of it. Josephus was a Jewish Historian and highly respected by the Romans.

Although some modern Liberals will tell you it is "fake", St. Eusebius, St. Ambrose, St. Jerome and many other writers have proven otherwise.

The passage finds even some contemporary scholarly defenders. Next, consult the Shroud of Turin, the famous prophecy in Isaiah 53 etc etc.

Josephus didn't write of Jesus (well not the christian one anyway, there were lots of Yeshuas running around Iudaea), Eusebius did. And this isn't modern liberals telling us, it is most of the church fathers telling us.

[JJoseph]

Hi Gubu. Are you sure of that?

Here is Saint Jerome, in "On Illustrious Men": ""Josephus, the son of Matthias, priest of Jerusalem, taken prisoner by Vespasian and his son Titus, was banished. Coming to Rome he presented to the emperors, father and son, seven books On the captivity of the Jews, which were deposited in the public library and, on account of his genius, was found worthy of a statue at Rome. He wrote also twenty books of Antiquities, from the beginning of the world until the fourteenth year of Domitian Cæsar, and two of Antiquities against Appion, the grammarian of Alexandria who, under Caligula, sent as legate on the part of the Gentiles against Philo, wrote also a book containing a vituperation of the Jewish nation. Another book of his entitled, On all ruling wisdom, in which the martyr deaths of the Maccabeans are related is highly esteemed.

In the eighth book of his Antiquities he most openly acknowledges that Christ was slain by the Pharisees on account of the greatness of his miracles, that John the Baptist was truly a prophet, and that Jerusalem was destroyed because of the murder of James the Apostle. He wrote also concerning the Lord after this fashion: “In this same time was Jesus, a wise man, if indeed it be lawful to call him man. For he was a worker of wonderful miracles, and a teacher of those who freely receive the truth. He had very many adherents also, both of the Jews and of the Gentiles, and was believed to be Christ, and when through the envy of our chief men Pilate had crucified him, nevertheless those who had loved him at first continued to the end, for he appeared to them the third day alive. Many things, both these and other wonderful things are in the songs of the prophets who prophesied concerning him and the sect of Christians, so named from Him, exists to the present day."

As you can see, the Church Father Saint Jerome takes for granted that the Testimonium Flavianum, as it is called, is authentic, and testifies of Jesus Christ.

[The Grand Nudger]

Syndicate founder takes testimony that conforms to his political beliefs and earthly desires as genuine. News at 6.

Here's what I want to know. "Saint Jerome" is alive today, and holds the positions he allegedly held..historically. You leaving contemporary christianity to join Saint Jeroman Christianism?

[Fake Messiah]

Nah, Was there actually room for Nishant to become even dumber?

Maybe we could make a test. He should not lie because, if he does, his god will torture him forever.

JJoseph, are you Nishant Xavier?

[no one]

"My buybull proves my buybull. Also, you stupid liberal heathen, lots and lots and lots of hoomans who believe the buybull is true, say the buybull is true. Now, how can you foolish, ill-advised ungodly barbarians deny the existence of the almighty after such powerful revelations?  You must passionately hate my little godiboi!!!"

[Pat Mustard]

The appeal of logical arguments for the existence of God has always escaped me. Essentially they're just ad hoc rationalizations. It's not like anyone, ever, has decided to profess religious belief simply because they were convinced by a syllogism anyway. And it's not like anyone has ever lost faith because they detected weaknesses in such arguments either.

To my way of thinking if God isn't a living, actual presence in your life, then no amount of rational theology is going to make a difference. 

Incidentally, I've long thought William Lane Craig is a charlatan. I know he's the only living philosopher that atheists can name, but he embarrasses me. I saw him debate poor Sam Harris on whether there could be a secular morality, and all Craig did was repeatedly deny that Harris had made his case ---strictly on the basis that Craig was there to argue against it. He didn't even bother to move the goalposts, his refutation was that lazy.

I wouldn't call Craig a philosopher, a solipsist and narcissus certainly, but not a philosopher.

[Angrboda]

The appeal of logical arguments for the existence of God has always escaped me. Essentially they're just ad hoc rationalizations. It's not like anyone, ever, has decided to profess religious belief simply because they were convinced by a syllogism anyway. And it's not like anyone has ever lost faith because they detected weaknesses in such arguments either.

To my way of thinking if God isn't a living, actual presence in your life, then no amount of rational theology is going to make a difference. 

Incidentally, I've long thought William Lane Craig is a charlatan. I know he's the only living philosopher that atheists can name, but he embarrasses me. I saw him debate poor Sam Harris on whether there could be a secular morality, and all Craig did was repeatedly deny that Harris had made his case ---strictly on the basis that Craig was there to argue against it. He didn't even bother to move the goalposts, his refutation was that lazy.

I wouldn't call Craig a philosopher, a solipsist and narcissus certainly, but not a philosopher.

One does not have to be good at one's profession to be called a professional.

[Pat Mustard]

oh boy.

Oh hi Dr. Beckett.

[Nay_Sayer]

oh boy.

Oh hi Dr. Beckett.

With each post I hope my next one will be the post that takes me home.

[Pat Mustard]

Notably Joesph has avoided my Pastalogical argument.

They have an unreasoning fear of noodly appendages.