If you learned that the god of [insert religion] is real, would all bets be off?

[Sicnoo0]

Read your first bullet point.
Read what I bolded.
See the difference.  

hint * bachelor indicates unmarried

Does this take into account that 'multiverse' chestnut?

Just incase I was misconstrued, I did say if multiple universes exist
I'm not so bold that I'd claim multiple universes do exist

If I wasn't misconstrued, then just ignore this. I'm just trying to cover all my bases

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

There are plenty of Christians williing to assert that their God created logic and is therefore not bound by it. If that God exists, logic is just ihis whim.

If god turned out to be real, I'd assume that scriptures (and theists themselves) got many, many, many, many things wrong about god

For starters, I'd assume that the real god is much, much weaker than theists like to believe their god is

I'd be pretty confident that any real-life god cannot create a married bachelor

Only the god in theists' imaginations can do absurd things like that, and defy logic on whim

If God created the universe, I’m fairly confident that he could - as mentioned before - simply change the meaning of ‘bachelor’. JRR Tolkien (not remotely godlike) changed the meaning of countless words and invented new ones. It’s not that difficult.

But even that probably wouldn’t be necessary, situationally speaking. Suppose Joe, a married man, is having it off with a woman to whom his isn’t married and who doesn’t know that he has a wife. To his wife, Joe is married. To his girlfriend, Joe is a bachelor. Joe is, therefore, a married bachelor. 

Kindly call me ‘God’.

Boru

[Sicnoo0]

I'd be pretty confident that any real-life god cannot create a married bachelor

Only the god in theists' imaginations can do absurd things like that, and defy logic on whim

If God created the universe, I’m fairly confident that he could - as mentioned before - simply change the meaning of ‘bachelor’. JRR Tolkien (not remotely godlike) changed the meaning of countless words and invented new ones. It’s not that difficult.

But even that probably wouldn’t be necessary, situationally speaking. Suppose Joe, a married man, is having it off with a woman to whom his isn’t married and who doesn’t know that he has a wife. To his wife, Joe is married. To his girlfriend, Joe is a bachelor. Joe is, therefore, a married bachelor. 

Kindly call me ‘God’.

Boru

Fine, how about this, God:

Could such a god cause the square root of two to become a rational number?

If your answer is that he can simply change the definition of rational numbers to include irrational numbers, then it seems like we're just playing games here.

Can I please just make a caveat and say that redefining words doesn't count? Defining a pizza as being the same as a calzone doesn't mean it actually is. The underlying facts don't change just because you change definitions around.

If god is all-knowing and only tells the truth, then god knows that Joe is married and thus not a bachelor. Just because one person thinks he's married and another person thinks he's a bachelor doesn't mean he's a married bachelor. If that's how this worked, then that means I could be an admin of atheistforums just because I think I am.

In fact, I would be an admin and not an admin at the same time, because some people think I am and some people think I'm not.

What people think should be irrelevant, because facts are facts

[The Grand Nudger]

Puny humans insisting that the entire universe and gods too all conform to the rules of a semantic game we came up with for irritating each other.

OFC.... if magic exists.... all bets are off. Nothing works the way we think it does or how it looks.

[Sicnoo0]

Puny humans insisting that the entire universe and gods too all conform to the rules of a semantic game we came up with for irritating each other.  

OFC.... if magic exists.... all bets are off.  Nothing works the way we think it does or how it looks.

personally, I'd prefer to give up on my previously held beliefs one at a time

If magic exists, fine. That doesn't mean I have to assume that married bachelors might be possible, too.

There are different kinds of magic, and for all I know the type of magic that can defy logic is still entirely fictional.

If god said to me "I'll bet you a million dollars I can create a married bachelor", I'd call his bluff and accept his bet.

However, if he said "I bet I can turn water into wine", I'd be too hesitant to assume he can't

I can totally imagine a god that can defy the currently known laws of physics and disregard everything we thought we knew about chemistry

But a logic-bender sounds to me like something that can only exist in fiction.

It sounds like you think logic is invented rather than discovered. I'm not prepared to have that debate, but I can say that I'm very confident no god could violate the law of identity, the law of noncontradiction or the law of excluded middle

When it comes to more complicated topics related to logic, I'm willing to concede that maybe certain logics do not at all correspond to the real world. But even things like many-valued logic, fuzzy logic and quantum logic all seem to be useful for dealing with the real world in certain contexts, so I'd argue they correspond to reality.

[The Grand Nudger]

It means exactly that. Magic and the miraculous are palpably constrained by what we consider impossible otherwise. That magic is fictional in mere reality means nothing in a hypothetical where magic is actual and existent in the same. Has nothing to do with whether I think these rules we call logic are discovered or invented, they're a mix of both, and neither means shit if the great fairies exist.

The faithful already insist that their god can violate the law of identity. The water is both water and not water. Wine and not wine. Blood and not blood. You reckon they can do stuff like that to water or wine or blood but not a person? See, you're already leaving logic behind even in your defense of it. The current laws of physics are better vetted than the current laws of logical inference, and the word current is doing alot of work there that it could just as easily do applied to those latter laws.

[Angrboda]

I think this thread was inspired by Leonard, the god of dull and pointless things.

[Sicnoo0]

You reckon they can do stuff like that to water or wine or blood but not a person?  See, you're already leaving logic behind even in your defense of it.  

to quote myself:

"If god turned out to be real, I'd assume that scriptures (and theists themselves) got many, many, many, many things wrong about god

For starters, I'd assume that the real god is much, much weaker than theists like to believe their god is

I'd be pretty confident that any real-life god cannot create a married bachelor

Only the god in theists' imaginations can do absurd things like that, and defy logic on a whim"

In short, what theists say about their god is obviously nonsense. I'm going by what I think a real god could do, if they existed

[arewethereyet]

Dude is way, way too obsessed with married bachelors.

[The Grand Nudger]

Used to be tons of them in the world, we called them "gay".

I do get where the hesitency comes from. It's just so hard to believe, we imagine that everything must have rules...and the rules have been so useful...so when we imagine existent gods we still tend to imagine them with rules they have to follow. Even the god botherers suffer from a poverty of imagination exactly like this. Still, if we're gonna do it, let's do it righteously. The Rulemaker doesn't have rules...it makes the damned rules. They are whatever it says they are, anytime it says whatever it says, which can be 180 degrees off from whatever it last pronounced or did.

That's exactly why I don't give a shit. So what if it exists and so what if it does exactly what it wants how it wants or even without any actual "how" whatsoever...just POOF? I'm still not gonna curbstomp the neighbors kid on it's say so. Existence and/or whether there are rules that bind isn't the problem. It could be magic all the way down, and for real. Trash either way.