What's your stance on bringing back extinct species?

[Anomalocaris]

A proof of concept.  It's not beyond our ability to do this sort of thing.  There are probably a ton of other species that would be a better fit for us, but if we're talking mammoths then it would be more for those ecosystems that miss them than for us.  I think we'd have to qualify the idea that the gardens of those later cultures were stable.  They were as stable as any other garden - in that they persist as long as the gardener keeps at it.  They're not doing great at present.  

I'll move along from mammoths (under protest, lol!)....because I think that the same questions arise when we talk about the introduction or reintroduction of beavers.  They're also habitat creators.  They have profound effects on the ecology of wherever they're at.  Beneficial for the environment, but..sometimes, not for us.  We did a number on them to, and like other keystones and habitat creators we find that it's pretty difficult to recreate or preserve or establish natural habitat without them.  We could say that they've had their shot.  That we should try to preserve what's left rather than what nature has selected for extinction - and even knowing that they would be beneficial to that goal, elect not to restore those populations and environments.  Maybe find some other species that fits the task.  Or, ofc, we could do it ourselves, like the gardeners..at least until we're gone or lose interest.


Ultimately, I think that any genuine plan to repair any of the damage we've done for the sake of repair, or even for the sake of saving ourselves..is going to end up meaning that we have to make alot of tough decisions.  Do things that will be difficult to sell.  Like relocating people or entire communities because of flood risks, for example.

The stability of the artificial ecosystem the Indians created is greater than might be imagined.

The composition of the forest in much of the Amazon remains the artifact of Indian land management even though the active management likely stopped between 1500-1600 due to massive population collapse in the Amazon rain forest due to the extraordinary susceptibility of native Americans to Euroasian epidemic diseases brought by the Spanish.     The middle of North America remains largely devoid of forest land even though Indian management likely stopped at near the same time, or perhaps a little later.     The composition and appearance of the vast stretches pf forest in the American Northeast also took a long time to lose their obvious artificial character.     Down through the early 1800s European observers, oblivious to the artificial character of the forest on the New England and mid-Atlantic states, remarked on how strange and unique and park like great stretches of supposedly primeval forests there were, with very little undergrown, and open grassy land in between trees that lets one ride a horse comfortably through tractless forests.

But the purpose of artificial ecology is not to ensure it will persist without human intervention.  The purpose is to manage the ecology for the benefit of human society.     We have no obligation to try to minimize our impact on the long term ecological development of this world after ourselves.   We do own it to ourselves, however, to ensure we don’t overindulge in things which have predictably bad consequence upon ourselves, and that we use ability t0 study and analyze and learn to enhance the long term value of the ecology around us for ourselves.

[Anomalocaris]

Duplicate

[Ravenshire]

Maybe you should comprehend something before issuing condescending and nonsensical remarks.

[Nanny]

Can mammoth burgers be cooked over methane flares or should we use dragon's breath?

[The Grand Nudger]

IDK Anom, I mean... I do get the value in making a dirtball pitch to get the ball rolling...obviously, lol. Kentucky has the largest population of elk east of the big river and it's success is down to selling tags. That's the engine, but it's not why it was done or the primary benefit of the program. It wouldn't be a stretch to consider it a modified livestock operation ( i'm reminded of all the bison and gazelle and even exotic non natives I saw being bred out west as we drove through). I'm not convinced, though, that viewing ecology or restoration projects solely through the lens of what we think we can get out of it is the goal of conservation or that you would find many conservation minded people espousing such a guiding principle. That sort of thinking is a big part of how we found ourselves here and it turns out to have been shortsighted at best. It will be a much longer project than restoring a given habitat to change our attitudes on that issue.

At any rate, it's not for a lack of benefit to humanity or the environment that we'd decide not to reintroduce mammoths or any number of other species. I think that you'd really enjoy that link I posted. It speaks directly to the problem of trying to understand ecology with these crucial pieces missing. In the same way that it might be difficult to understand the current state of earth in the absence of human beings. I think it's fun to wonder, too, how much of our environment might one day be anachronistically adapted to us...as a then-past keystone species, as natural gardeners, not entirely unlike the many we've eradicated or nearly eradicated - even if our best work doesn't tend to last quite as long as those others.

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

Fine, bring back mammoths. But the first time one shits on my wife’s winter heath patch, don’t say I didn’t warn you.

Boru

[arewethereyet]

I still want the unicorns, damn it.

[The Grand Nudger]

Fine, bring back mammoths. But the first time one shits on my wife’s winter heath patch, don’t say I didn’t warn you.

Boru

The minute they step off rez I'll shoot em myself, and pay you for the privilege. 

[The Grand Nudger]

I still want the unicorns, damn it.

I think we'll see those before we see any mammoths.

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

I still want the unicorns, damn it.

I think we'll see those before we see any mammoths.

Too right. Any talented vet could cobble together a unicorn - graft on a horn, split the hoofs,  and (for the purists) stick on a goat’s beard and a lion’s tail. Easy peasy.

Boru