Americans Unite - Behind Cold-Blooded Murderer

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

Not every murderer deserves condemnation. Not every murder victim is worthy of praise.

Boru

[The Architect Of Fate]

Oh dear lets go over this shall we

It makes sense if you think about many people's perception of Trump vs. the Democrats. 

No if you dealing in reality 

NOTE: I am not saying that people's perception of him is correct. I am not a fan of Trump. I did not vote for Trump. I am not excusing him. I am DESCRIBING what other people say.

Yup stupid ignorant people 

Both parties work for the corporations. The US is not a democracy in the sense that the will of the people makes any difference. 

https://www.princeton.edu/~mgilens/idr.pdf

America is a democracy yes it has corporation within that democracy but democracy it remains  

Until recently, the Democrats might hold up shiny objects to get people to vote for them -- reasonable health insurance, that kind of thing. But it's been obvious for a while now that they're not serious. Early in Obama's term he had Dem majorities in both the House and Senate. He had won partly because he said he'd do something about health care. He didn't try to institute single payer, he went with Mitt Romney's plan which is better than nothing but still enriches insurance companies more than it guarantees care for citizens. 

All Trump offers is "concepts of a plan " he had 9 years to propose anything concrete to replace what Obama did  he still hasn't. 

Hillary is on video saying "Single payer will never happen." 

Once again were is Trumps plan to replace Obamacare ? Hell a vast swath of Trumpists didn't know the Obamacare thing as the ACA 

In the election just past, Harris didn't even bother with promises. She was clearly chosen by the elite to serve their interests. That's why old-fashioned mainstream Republicans, like Dick Cheney, endorsed her. She serves the same masters. 

1. Trump has "concepts of a plan " 

2. Trump is mainstream Republican now and he is an elite and he's packed his cabinet with Neo Cons this notion he's some kind of rebel is absurd  

3. Dick Cheney went with Kamala because he realized how evil Trump is isn't corporate collision this is Lex Luther teaming up with the Justice League against Darkseid. The only interest they have in common is keeping a wannabe dictator  out of the Whitehouse. 

Trump enrages these old-fashioned Republicans because he may not serve the corporations obediently enough. In fact it's almost certain that he'll end up doing the corporations' bidding, but that's not how he talks on the campaign trail. Many people were persuaded that he will be something other than business as usual, that he will break the monopolies that rich people have over government policy. (And I'm sure everyone else here will be more than willing to explain why that perception is false.) 

Are you high dude Trump has let those very Republicans into his cabinet he also has donated to both parties and he is deep within the so called establishment . You want to talk about not being serious 

Though better-informed people will disagree, voting for Trump, for many people, had the same emotional punch as shooting a CEO. It's about sticking it to the Establishment. It's about doing something transgressive to show that you've had enough with business as usual. 

Nope one was a little guy striking out a greedy corporate CEO the other was a greedy CEO whose deeply ingrained in the political elite convincing stupid people he isn't 

In US elections, perceptions are more important than fact, and that's what many people perceived.

This is bullshit 

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

Funny thing about MAGAt's view on healthcare. There have been reports of them signing up for coverage under the ACA, but telling the insurer things like, 'Just make sure I don't get any of that Obamacare stuff.'

Here in NZ, we have a long and difficult process to get people covered under the national health plan. You have to be a citizen. Or a legal resident. Or a visitor. That's pretty much it.

Boru

[The Architect Of Fate]

Funny thing about MAGAt's view on healthcare. There have been reports of them signing up for coverage under the ACA, but telling the insurer things like, 'Just make sure I don't get any of that Obamacare stuff.'

Here in NZ, we have a long and difficult process to get people covered under the national health plan. You have to be a citizen. Or a legal resident. Or a visitor. That's pretty much it.

Boru

Because the name is Obama is in it and they have been trained by rightwing media hate it solely because of that.

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

Funny thing about MAGAt's view on healthcare. There have been reports of them signing up for coverage under the ACA, but telling the insurer things like, 'Just make sure I don't get any of that Obamacare stuff.'

Here in NZ, we have a long and difficult process to get people covered under the national health plan. You have to be a citizen. Or a legal resident. Or a visitor. That's pretty much it.

Boru

Because the name Obama is in it and they have been trained by rightwing media hate it solely because of that.

Yeah, I get why it happens. The stupider people are, the more likely they are to be label-driven instead of content driven.

Boru

[TheWhiteMarten]

A society that values human life  does cheer the death of  a man who callously profited off denying others life. It shows excellent morals to do so.

Just to be clear, your position that a moral - i.e. a civilized - society should cheer when a man, charged of no crimes, is unlawfully executed in public with risk of bystandards bang harmed?

I see where the left "fear" of guns comes from; they project their own fantasies on everyone else.

Cheering for people being murdered is *not* moral or civil, barbarian.

[Sheldon]

Empty rhetoric...

A society that values human life does not cheer when a man is gunned down in the streets - that is a direct result of lack of morals, the rhetoric could not be more blunt.

I agree your rhetoric is blunt, but then facile rhetoric generally is, and you've leaped from that to a straw man. A country that embraces endemic private gun ownership, will likely see a corresponding increase in gun crime and violence. Embarking private gun ownership is a moral choice, geddit? 

A country duped into believing endemic private gun ownership is not just an alienable right, but essential to personal safety,  is bound to suffer the consequences.

Back to back world war champions, knocked out the Soviet Union, has the Russian military hampered by sending 5% of it's 50 year old equipment to Ukraine, world leading economy, world leading social power, the ability to defend myself on my property instead of waiting 45 minutes to an hour and a half for police to reach me... I know it rubs the rest of the world wrong, but we will keep doing what got us here, thanks.

Regardless of the moral cost, yes I get it, you don't seem to, and no it doesn't run me anyway, I don't live in the US. Nor would I choose to, though I am sure there are some lovely places to live. 

The only gun problem America has is in inner cities, with cartel members, and with those individuals who commit suicide - which means it's not a gun problem but a social problem.

What a spectacularly stupid lie, but even were this true, it wouldn't alter the fact that the massive amount  of privately own guns is driving some gruesome corresponding statistics on gun violence and deaths. This remind of the failed religious programme of trying to convince young people not to have sex, rather than educating them about how to be safe, it also had corresponding catastrophic results.

[Sheldon]

Though better-informed people will disagree, voting for Trump, for many people, had the same emotional punch as shooting a CEO.

Not just better-informed people but anyone with even a minute sense of logic will laugh at your claim that voting for a CEO is the same as shooting a CEO.

Those people rather voted for Trump because they were misinformed that voting for anyone who will regulate billionaires is a communist.

Thus the most anti-government people are billionaires and CEOs. The government exists to protect people from billionaires.

Now that hits the nail on the head.

[The Architect Of Fate]

Just to be clear, your position that a moral - i.e. a civilized - society should cheer when a man, charged of no crimes, is unlawfully executed in public with risk of bystandards bang harmed?

No my position was this guy was a callous bastard  with lots of innocent blood on his hands and that it's perfectly civilized and moral to not feel sympathy for him and honestly think he had this coming. There was no honest risk of bystanders getting killed at least no more so then as of the so called defensive shootings. 

I see where the left "fear" of guns comes from; they project their own fantasies on everyone else.

Nah the left doesn't fear guns (Lots of left wingers own guns) and  no we have no desire to commit gun violence (We aren't the right you love the idea but fortunately are too cowardly to ever actually try it   ) so yet another delusion cooked up by you. Also it isn't just left wingers who have sympathy with this guy getting shot.

Cheering for people being murdered is *not* moral or civil, barbarian.

Cheering  that a callous greedy bastard got his karma is moral and civil. As for a barbarian I'm not the one who venerates a moral code from the Iron age......Barbarian

[Sheldon]

The problem is that in the UK health care is a service, in the USA health care is a business.
 How can it be fair when the simple act of getting sick or injured can leave you bankrupt?

Exactly, in the UK we often hear people talk about the burgeoning cost of the NHS, but I rarely hear anyone point out what the cost of not having it might be, one of the possible consequences you cited in your post, the catastrophic mortality rate among the poorest people would be another, the cost to business in lost work from avoidable sick leave another. People often assume because there are problems with something, that those problems won't be made far worse if that something were not there. 

Many US citizens seem to as angered by the notion of universal health care as they are at the prospect of sensible gun laws, based on the rather facile notions: freedom = good, control = bad, socialism = bad, free market capitalism = good. As if there is no overlap anywhere. If only Orwell were alive today...