Ben Shapiro vs Neil deGrasse Tyson: The WAR Over Transgender Issues

[Belacqua]

Trotting out big atheist names as if every atheist follows them like some Middle-Eastern demigod is typical projection, innit? I've got disagreements with all the major atheists on this or that topic, Hitchens included.

That's why I wrote "I understand, of course, that atheists are people who think for themselves and no one here would care at all about Hitchens' opinion."

I'm also unsure why what @Belacqua "suspects" Hitchens might feel about something reflects upon Hitchens rather that himself.

That's why I wrote: "I'm just interested in the way trans issues appear to have re-drawn certain battle lines, with people who were formerly judged to be Good People now recategorized onto the Bad People list."

I already know what I think, and I have expressed that.

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

Now explain why I should give two shits about what a dead man would have thought about trans rights. Why not Dante? Could we discuss what Vercingetorix thought about this? Maybe we could conjure up the ghosts of Socrates, Columbus, and Saladin and have them debate it.

Christ on a crutch.

Boru

Trotting out big atheist names as if every atheist follows them like some Middle-Eastern demigod is typical projection, innit? I've got disagreements with all the major atheists on this or that topic, Hitchens included.

I'm also unsure why what @Belacqua "suspects" Hitchens might feel about something reflects upon Hitchens rather that himself.

Yup. There's a certain desperation evident in any effort to find celebrities who share your views. Thinking for yourself is (for Bel, at least) a heavy burden.

Boru

[TheWhiteMarten]

[
I'm not sure what you mean by "cost" -

YOU were the one bringing the term "cost" to the table. YOU failed to explain for a week to explain what you meant

Try to be honest, at least once in your (forum) life, because: Jesus was not impressed with your blatant dishonesty.

So, for the upteenth time, what is the cost YOU were referring to with regards to stopping to discriminate against trans people?

I almost responded honestly to your question - and respectfully to you - until I realised you lied about my position; I have never stated that there are costs to stopping discrimination against trans people, you dishonest child.

Can *you* tell the truth and not project for once, you brat - or is tabloid-level twisting of a character assassination the only shaky leg you have to stand upon in leu of anything intelligent or relevant to say? Because you sure as shit would be lost without it.

Can we *please* grow the fuck up and just talk like adults, or are you seriously going to continue behaving like a 12 year old?

[Deesse23]

One can be aware that trans people exist without also accepting that existence gives them an inherent right to define themselves and their place in society - particularly if it comes at the cost of others.

How about this one, liar?

[Silver]

[Sheldon]

One can be aware that trans people exist without also accepting that existence gives them an inherent right to define themselves and their place in society - particularly if it comes at the cost of others.

What cost, and to whom? Also why should I care, indeed why do you care?

TheWhiteMarten

I have never stated that there are costs to stopping discrimination against trans people, you dishonest child.

Yes, you do seem to enjoy making vague sweeping empty claims, then avoiding clarifying what you mean in any honest way. Though it's clear from your original claim, that you could easily have been saying what you now seem keen to deny.

[Simon Moon]

There is a difference between sex and gender.

Sex is based on the equipment one of born with, gender is how people naturally feel like presenting and expressing themselves.

Gender is a social construct.

And even sex isn't as black and white as people think it is. Intersex people are more common than natural redheads.

And for anyone that thinks transgender, nonbinary, gender fluidity are all new, and "trendy", there is a long history going back centuries, across many culture, from all over the world that have recognized people with genders different than the sex organs.

The mahu and the fa’afafine of the Pacific Islands.
The muxe of Mexico.
The sekrata of Africa.
The chuqui chinchay and quariwarmi  of South America.
The waria, makkunrai, oroani, calalai, calabai, bissu of Indonesia.

Native America, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Thailand also have quite a few genders in their cultures.

And finally, here is a biologist's take on the issue.

[Paleophyte]

YOU were the one bringing the term "cost" to the table. YOU failed to explain for a week to explain what you meant

Try to be honest, at least once in your (forum) life, because: Jesus was not impressed with your blatant dishonesty.

So, for the upteenth time, what is the cost YOU were referring to with regards to stopping to discriminate against trans people?

I almost responded honestly to your question - and respectfully to you - until I realised you lied about my position; I have never stated that there are costs to stopping discrimination against trans people, you dishonest child.

Can *you* tell the truth and not project for once, you brat - or is tabloid-level twisting of a character assassination the only shaky leg you have to stand upon in leu of anything intelligent or relevant to say? Because you sure as shit would be lost without it.

Can we *please* grow the fuck up and just talk like adults, or are you seriously going to continue behaving like a 12 year old?

Can you develop reading comprehension and try to remember what you posted a few pages back? You were the one who brought cost into this and were brought to task for your use of the term. You can reply honestly or pitch another wobbly, but it's all there for us to see. Like others, I'm curious to know what cost you imagine there is to granting others basic rights and dignities.

[Angrboda]

I'm guessing that TWM saw an opportunity to claim he was being unfairly persecuted and leaped at the chance.

[Silver]

Clearly, we're taking the cost out of context in his paragraph.