Atheist, i will leave my religion to mysif you let transsexuals leave their ideology

[EthelMcKain]

I understand your desire for consistency and respecting individual choices. However, religious expression is a constitutionally protected right, distinct from personal identity. Equating them might oversimplify complex societal issues. Perhaps focusing on mutual tolerance and respect, without necessarily endorsing specific ideologies, would be a more productive approach?

[Belacqua]

[...] Perhaps focusing on mutual tolerance and respect, without necessarily endorsing specific ideologies, would be a more productive approach?

This sounds like such a reasonable and temperate suggestion... it almost seems as though it comes from a different era. 

It looks as if this and other issues are so polarizing that expressing any respect for the other side would be seen as insufficient commitment to what is Good and Right. Since we know what must be done, any tolerance for others merely hinders Progress. 

They used to say that before any debate could begin, we should be able to express the other side's position in language that they would completely agree with. That is, not inherently foolish-looking. But that's not the way things are done anymore, apparently.

[Alan V]

[...] Perhaps focusing on mutual tolerance and respect, without necessarily endorsing specific ideologies, would be a more productive approach?

This sounds like such a reasonable and temperate suggestion... it almost seems as though it comes from a different era. 

It looks as if this and other issues are so polarizing that expressing any respect for the other side would be seen as insufficient commitment to what is Good and Right. Since we know what must be done, any tolerance for others merely hinders Progress. 

They used to say that before any debate could begin, we should be able to express the other side's position in language that they would completely agree with. That is, not inherently foolish-looking. But that's not the way things are done anymore, apparently.

That only works when people are good-faith actors.  When groups of people repeatedly lie about their opposition, you can't compromise with them.  They are just trying to move the Overton Window in their favor by cheating.  One example is climate change denial based on conspiracy theories.  

In other words, if you are tolerant of the intolerant, you encourage intolerance.

Political polarization isn't an easy situation to address fairly, except by remaining honest.

[Belacqua]

This sounds like such a reasonable and temperate suggestion... it almost seems as though it comes from a different era. 

It looks as if this and other issues are so polarizing that expressing any respect for the other side would be seen as insufficient commitment to what is Good and Right. Since we know what must be done, any tolerance for others merely hinders Progress. 

They used to say that before any debate could begin, we should be able to express the other side's position in language that they would completely agree with. That is, not inherently foolish-looking. But that's not the way things are done anymore, apparently.

That only works when people are good-faith actors.  When groups of people repeatedly lie about their opposition, you can't compromise with them.  They are just trying to move the Overton Window in their favor by cheating.  One example is climate change denial based on conspiracy theories.  

In other words, if you are tolerant of the intolerant, you encourage intolerance.

Political polarization isn't an easy situation to address fairly, except by remaining honest.

Part of the extreme polarization is the inability to accept that people who disagree with us may in fact be honest.

[Alan V]

That only works when people are good-faith actors.  When groups of people repeatedly lie about their opposition, you can't compromise with them.  They are just trying to move the Overton Window in their favor by cheating.  One example is climate change denial based on conspiracy theories.  

In other words, if you are tolerant of the intolerant, you encourage intolerance.

Political polarization isn't an easy situation to address fairly, except by remaining honest.

Part of the extreme polarization is the inability to accept that people who disagree with us may in fact be honest.

So Donald Trump's 30,000 lies were honest?  He has been undermining the very foundations of democracy by repeatedly attacking the facts.

[Fake Messiah]

It looks as if this and other issues are so polarizing

I wouldn't call it polarizing but moot. And it is no surprise, given that it was started by a troll who claims that trans people have an ideology that they are imposing on everyone else.

They used to say that before any debate could begin, we should be able to express the other side's position in language that they would completely agree with.

They should rather say that when the debate begins the participants should know what they are debating about. Aside from you turning yet another thread into complaining about how everyone here is rude and stupid, do you know what this topic is supposed to be about? Do trans people have some ideology that they are forcing on us of the likes of the 10 commandments in schools?

[Thumpalumpacus]

Part of the extreme polarization is the inability to accept that people who disagree with us may in fact be honest.

Another reason for that polarization is that some people see everything as zero-sum and will do anything to "win", including lie about one's own position. Should the victim of that lie tolerate the slander?

[Paleophyte]

[Ivan Denisovich]

That only works when people are good-faith actors.  When groups of people repeatedly lie about their opposition, you can't compromise with them.  They are just trying to move the Overton Window in their favor by cheating.  One example is climate change denial based on conspiracy theories.  

In other words, if you are tolerant of the intolerant, you encourage intolerance.

Political polarization isn't an easy situation to address fairly, except by remaining honest.

Part of the extreme polarization is the inability to accept that people who disagree with us may in fact be honest.

Herein lies the problem. I suspect that people who disagree with me are honest but "honest" fascists or neoliberals aren't any better than dishonest ones. Issue lies not in honesty (or lack of it) but in views that can't be tolerated in civilized society.

[Deesse23]

Part of the extreme polarization is the inability to accept that people who disagree with us may in fact be honest.

And often they are not. Your point is?