US Strikes on Iran (Operation Epic Fury)

[Thumpalumpacus]

He can't decide whether Iran is defeated or whether Iran is standing. He's not adhering to any playbook at all. This is all PIDOOMA, which indicates to me that this unnecessary assault/"war" has no objective, no endgame, and very undefined victory conditions.

In the meantime, the energy markets will remain skittish, which means that the global economy will be lethargic while the corporate barons hedge their bets. American boots on the ground in Kharg Island will only prolong the pain. But no one has the balls to tell him that he's stepping on his own dick.

[Fake Messiah]

If a Iran’s power plants get destroyed, hospitals and emergency services would be strained since backup generators only last so long. Water systems would fail as pumps and treatment facilities shut down.

Food supplies would also be disrupted as refrigeration and transportation break down.

But maybe China steps in and saves them with thousands of solar panels, like they are doing in Cuba:

China is helping Cuba capture renewable solar energy as the U.S. imposes an effective oil blockade, creating its worst energy crisis in decades. The installation of 5,000 solar systems donated by the People's Republic of China is underway across the country.

Chinese-backed solar parks could be supplying as much as 10 percent of Cuba’s electricity, researchers say.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/202...-blockade/

[Ivan Denisovich]

So I’m not an expert. But I have some basic knowledge on stuff.

Then perhaps you should demonstrate it instead of filling your posts with bullshit?

The USSR was not anything like western democracies. Such an ideology is even outdated in our time. But it used to be a superpower.

So? Does being superpower justify lack of morals? Are you kind of fool that subscribes to "might makes right" idea?

You should see the movie “Goodbye Lenin” (2003). It’s about the life of an East German family who has to adapt very quickly to German reunification and the switch to a capitalist society. So it’s not just in history books. These are lives, decades of indoctrination into values that are radically different from our values here inside liberal democracies. So if you know a lot about 20th century history, you should be fascinated by the communist-block. Yes they are a relic of the past. But No, they were not really evil. At least not like the IRI.

I saw the movie. It was nice but is irrelevant to the topic.

USSR was guilty of genocide you ignorant clown. You even understand what this word mean? No matter how terrible Iran is I never saw credible (or any at all to be honest) accusation of genocide thrown at them thus they are leagues above USSR in morals. Rest of "communist" block countries also weren't good places to live, Romania in particular.

- You are right. Maybe I wanted this to work too much and maybe I am missing some of the signs here. But what if it works? The two are not complete D….es either. What if the IRI simply collapses?

Or maybe you're ignoramus with no morals whatsoever. Your hatred against Iran blinds you to reality.

If israel and USA aggressive war will work it still will be a crime. They don't get to attack sovereign country on bullshit excuses.
 

And next question for you:
 
- What if the IRI holds on? The same intellectuals who criticize D. Trump + Israel are also saying that the IRI will not be able to hold on for too long anyhow. (It’s just a question)

So?
 

Yes. That’s how I see it too. But you cannot say they were not socialist at all.

I can. Means of production did not belong to workers and thus SU wasn't socialist. It's that simple.

What is the average tuition in the USA? You probably know that it was 0 in the USSR right? Or do you have a health insurance? They all had free health insurance in the USSR.

Ever heard of concept of "welfare state"? Do some reading sonny before you embarrass yourself further.

What about abortion rights? –

What abortion right have to do with socialism?

Also according to your twisted logic SU stopped being socialist in 1936 as On 27 June 1936, the Central Executive Committee of the Soviet Union made abortion illegal again.

They still sent Valentina Tereshkova to space (20 years before Sally Ride).

This makes them socialist? It erases SU crimes?
 

But I still agree that there were many cracks in the system. And that’s how it collapsed. All I said is that it was not a suicidal regime like fascism and that in was not founded on irrationality from the very beginning as it is the case of the Ayatollahs.

It was founded on utopian thinking which is hardly rational and on ideology that resembled religion and then transformed into it when marxism became marxism-leninism.
 

And if the world had reacted as soon as Hitler started to rebuild the Wehrmacht there would be no WWII. If France + GB had attack him as soon as he took the demilitarized region in Rhineland 40 million Europeans would have a shot at living longer

If the world would have reacted (by force of arms) then there would be a world war by definition.

It's good to be armchair general and politician but both France and GB had to deal with populace that had enough of war and obviously neither of these countries could see a future.
 

It’s not in Wikipedia, it’s on CNN.

You're drunk or on drugs? I recommend you Wikipedia because you lack even most basic knowledge and it can help to remedy it. What CNN have to do with this?

Despite Trump moving away from it, European leaders (who probably know European history better than you) are seeing how history has started to repeat itself and are stopping the new wannabe Hitler in Rhineland before the Sudetes, before Austria, before other parts of Czechoslovakia and before Poland.

So these unnamed (and probably existing only in your fertile imagination) European leaders are doing something to stop trump or netanyahu? That's cool if true.
 

- Don’t worry. I did go to school when I was a kid. The French entrenched themselves in the Maginot line. They would either stop them there or they would stop them with tanks in the north near Belgium. But German Tanks came very quickly over Belgium rendering the Maginot line useless. Then there was panic. People started fleeing to the south. And the Brits merely saved their soldier in Dunkirk.

That does not sound like being caught unaware.

Also consult some books before writing a post. Above looks like worst kind of ai slop that explains nothing and tells nothing. You're aware of the fact that OKH wanted something different than Manstein and war might have looked different if Hitler didn't learn of his plan and supported it?
 

All these years or months they acted very passively and when they acted it was already too late at least for the 10 million Jews who were exterminated in this war.

Sure, sure. There was no Battle of Britain and allies just twiddled their thumbs until perfectly rational USSR which also sent first woman in space saved them.

Cut one the bullshit and do some research sonny. Historical consensus is that about 6 millions of Jews were killed in Shoah. It's already enormous crime so I have no idea why you seek to inflate the number further. I can only hope that it is ignorance and not malice speaking.
 

See that’s what I mean by “rational player”. The Nazis used trains + other resources to exterminate humans who were considered “too harmful to be left alive”. These are signs of irrationality. You cannot make deals with such irrational regimes. And Europe learned this the hard way.

Yet allegedly rational USSR did. Also you're contradicting yourself - if Jews were “too harmful to be left alive” then killing them wasn't irrational.

It's like you don't have slightest clue. If we adopt nazi standards for whatever reason then killing Jews was rational. If we adopt standards of civilized being then killing Jews was criminal, abhorrent, idiotic and wasteful.
 

Yes this is one of the most intriguing parts of WWII. But if I am correct the USSR was already treating Poland like it treated Ukraine in our days. Lenin had attempted to annex it but was unable to do that. Lenin had thought that Polish workers would welcome the Red Army as liberators from capitalist exploitation. But instead they saw it as their national duty to protect their country.

What exactly is so intriguing there?
 
If Lenin wouldn't be blinded by ideology he would grasp the fact that invasion will not have significant support. Still I can't say that I am unhappy about his (and Stalin who prevented Budyonny from reinforcing Tukhachevsky) blunder.

 

So maybe Stalin simply took the opportunity.

He took opportunity to make a deal with irrational regime proving that SU was mightily rational.
 

There is a 1997 Brad Pitt Movies called “Seven years in Tibet”. In this movie you can see how aggressive and ruthless the communist were toward the Tibetans who were very spiritual people. And that’s how communist cultural revolutions work. Trotsky wouldn’t have approved it. But that’s how Lenin + Stalin operated. It’s called “cultural revolution”.

Don't drink and post and answer my question: were Great Terror, Holodomor or sending millions to GULag instead of using them in productive work rational?

As for Trotsky - your magic ball told you that or are you time traveller?
 

To this I will add that this is the most right wing Israeli government ever. So Trump moved away from the already signed treaty. As Israel got attacked by Iranian Proxies. Full stop. How do you solve this today?

I won't solve it because I'm some random dude on the internet.

I would however liked to see israel sanctioned for genocide and starting another war.
 

I am not an apologist for Israel.

So where is your condemnation of israel genocide of Palestinians? You constantly fellating this rogue state and write some bullshit about how it is in danger while simultaneously ignoring that it is danger it is bringing on itself - by staring war, by oppression and by genocide.

DO you want Israel to be wiped from the map?

I want them sanctioned and to UN peacekeeping forces be stationed in Tel Aviv as country that routinely pises on UN resolutions can't be trusted.

I don’t I think they can keep their land as long as they remove all of these settlers from Palestinian lands.

Perhaps they shouldn't illegally settle there then.
 

Are you an anti-Zionist all together?

If you would know what zionism is you would (hopefully) opposed it too:

The first attempts to settle European Jews in Palestine and thus restore the glory of the Holy Land appeared as early as the first half of the 19th century. “It is worth noting,” Malm reminds us, "that this was a wholly Christian and Anglo-Saxon fantasy, in which Jews actually living in the Middle East or elsewhere had no active participation."[31] It was in 1839 that the phrase was most likely first coined—by Lord Shaftesbury in the pages of The Times—as “a land without people” and “people without a land,” which Shaftesbury in The Times, of a “land without a people” and “a people without a land,” which then became the most important slogan of Zionism: "A land without a people for a people without a land." British public opinion and increasingly wider circles of European intellectuals did indeed promote the belief that Palestine was uninhabited and ready for settlement.
[Paweł Mościcki, Gaza. On the Culture of Extermination, p.37-38]*

What’s your approach on this?

That rogue states committing genocide should be stopped by force.
 

- Houtis + Hamas + Hezbolah are all Iranian proxies who are trained and financed by Iran.

Your words aren't evidence.
 

Do you believe that Israel should simply be eradicated?

It should be restrained sonny. Whether by sanction or force I care not as in my view genocidal regimes can't be allowed to continue unpunished.
 

If no: How are they supposed to defend themselves?

Without war crimes and genocide. Shouldn't be a concept that is hard to grasp.
 

Do not think that I approve of genocide.

I'm yet to see you condemn it. Also you deny Iran sovereignty because it is "ruled by monsters" but you don't appear to treat israel the same despite the fact that it committed genocide. I think that you lack even a shred of moral courage to truly condemn whatever israel is doing. Actions of this rogue state are abhorrent, criminal and plain idiotic but you don't seem to care. Same with SU. You don't condemn it for genocide just speak some nonsense about it's alleged rationality. It looks like your moral compass is malfunctioning, assuming you have one at all.

I also think that what’s happening in Lebanon right now is not very nice either.

israel is using white phosphorus in Lebanon. That's criminal not merely not very nice.

Anything else to say in regard to you not being israel apologist?

But if you don’t remove the Ayatollah, they will keep selling oil to China and finance militant groups all over the place and ordinary Arabs (including Christian and Sunni Arabs) will be paying the price.

So your solution to the issue is to beat the victim while letting aggressor scot free? Neither israel nor USA have right to decide sovereign state government. You seem curiously resistant to the concept that Iran should be afforded the same right that other countries enjoy while simultaneously being blind to israel and US breaking the international law.
 

You know in sociology, this is the type of situation that leads to genocides. At some point humanity, reason and logic disappear and there is simply “kill of be killed”.
 
So what if this is what they are trying to do this time (I mean in Iran)? And what if it works?
 
I think it can work. It’s possible.

What type of situation? Allowing rogue state that already committed genocide to continue without punishment might indeed incite it to commit another one so best way to prevent it would be to use force against israel.

[Thumpalumpacus]

If a Iran’s power plants get destroyed, hospitals and emergency services would be strained since backup generators only last so long. Water systems would fail as pumps and treatment facilities shut down.

Food supplies would also be disrupted as refrigeration and transportation break down.

But maybe China steps in and saves them with thousands of solar panels, like they are doing in Cuba:

China is helping Cuba capture renewable solar energy as the U.S. imposes an effective oil blockade, creating its worst energy crisis in decades. The installation of 5,000 solar systems donated by the People's Republic of China is underway across the country.

Chinese-backed solar parks could be supplying as much as 10 percent of Cuba’s electricity, researchers say.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/202...-blockade/

Soft power matters.

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

@Leonardo17

BrianSoddingBoru:
 
(Is Iran a Sovereign country?”
 
I think we should wait and see a little.

If it's not too much trouble, would you mind telling us what you imagine the phrase 'sovereign country' actually means?

Boru

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

If a Iran’s power plants get destroyed, hospitals and emergency services would be strained since backup generators only last so long. Water systems would fail as pumps and treatment facilities shut down.

Food supplies would also be disrupted as refrigeration and transportation break down.

But maybe China steps in and saves them with thousands of solar panels, like they are doing in Cuba:

Soft power matters.

(Bold mine)

'You can catch more flies with honey than you can with cruise missiles and cluster munitions.' - Sun Tzu, c. 500 BCE

Boru

[Ivan Denisovich]

@Leonardo17

BrianSoddingBoru:
 
(Is Iran a Sovereign country?”
 
I think we should wait and see a little.

If it's not too much trouble, would you mind telling us what you imagine the phrase 'sovereign country' actually means?

Boru

Only example of sovereign country that I can recall Leo used was israel. A country that committed genocide. Leo also denies Iran sovereignty because it's allegedly ruled by monsters. So only conclusion that I can reach looks really ugly - genocide is less monstrous than what Iran is doing in Leo imagination and is of no matter when it comes to sovereignty (which in itself is correct but in conjunction with monsters comment is really worrying) .

To be fair I doubt that Leo thought this through. I hope he is just both absurdly biassed against Iran and comically ignorant of basically anything and not type of scum that does not see issue with genocide.

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

@Leonardo17


If it's not too much trouble, would you mind telling us what you imagine the phrase 'sovereign country' actually means?

Boru

Only example of sovereign country that I can recall Leo used was israel. A country that committed genocide. Leo also denies Iran sovereignty because it's allegedly ruled by monsters. So only conclusion that I can reach looks really ugly - genocide is less monstrous than what Iran is doing in Leo imagination and is of no matter when it comes to sovereignty (which in itself is correct but in conjunction with monsters comment is really worrying) .

To be fair I doubt that Leo thought this through. I hope he is just both absurdly biassed against Iran and comically ignorant of basically anything and not type of scum that does not see issue with genocide.

Well, he's not wrong about Iran being ruled by monsters. But a monstrosity of governance has no bearing on sovereignty

Boru

[Ivan Denisovich]

Only example of sovereign country that I can recall Leo used was israel. A country that committed genocide. Leo also denies Iran sovereignty because it's allegedly ruled by monsters. So only conclusion that I can reach looks really ugly - genocide is less monstrous than what Iran is doing in Leo imagination and is of no matter when it comes to sovereignty (which in itself is correct but in conjunction with monsters comment is really worrying) .

To be fair I doubt that Leo thought this through. I hope he is just both absurdly biassed against Iran and comically ignorant of basically anything and not type of scum that does not see issue with genocide.

Well, he's not wrong about Iran being ruled by monsters. But a monstrosity of governance has no bearing on sovereignty

Boru

It might be. But if being ruled by monsters prevents country from being sovereign then shouldn't israel count too? Or US with trump in charge for that matter? As far as I am concerned there is no way to view Leo comments in positive light but merely idiotic and ignorant in best case scenario and as truly vile in worst case scenario.

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

Well, he's not wrong about Iran being ruled by monsters. But a monstrosity of governance has no bearing on sovereignty

Boru

It might be. But if being ruled by monsters prevents country from being sovereign then shouldn't israel count too? Or US with trump in charge for that matter? As far as I am concerned there is no way to view Leo comments in positive light but merely idiotic and ignorant in best case scenario and as truly vile in worst case scenario.

I don't disagree. If Leo's standard for sovereignty is a particular level of monstrosity, then a lot of sovereign countries aren't sovereign. It's just one of those words he doesn't understand, like 'martyr'.

Boru