US Strikes on Iran (Operation Epic Fury)

[Thumpalumpacus]

Iran is victim of israel aggression no matter how unpalatable it's regime.

... as well as our shameful American aggression. We all detest the mullahs, but killing Iranian civilians does no hurt to a regime that clearly has no problem killing those same civilians in order to remain in power, as shown in January.

It follows that a massive attack upon Iran harms the civilians suffering the regime at least as much as it might harm the regime, if not more so. That means we are no better than those tyrants.

The Iranian people deserve neither Islamic tyranny nor American/Israeli bombs. I cannot fathom supporting the bombing of schools, hospitals, and power stations -- actions which serve no military purpose -- simply on the whim of two proper cunts who possess weapons but not wisdom. If Leonardo wants to hunt up apologia for war-criminals let him sleep in the bed Erdogan has made for him. Because it appears the apple hasn't fallen far from the tree here. Autocrats gonna cozy up.

[Paleophyte]

Trump's now talking about pulling out of Iran. Not that he even put it in. Sounds like he's going to declare the war won and swagger off, leaving the mess for grown-ups to clean up. Since that'll leave him short of an actual win, we can expect him to strike Cuba next in the vain hope of distracting Americans from his multiple and manifest failures. That's going to go about as well as you'd expect. Who figures we'll have Iranian missiles and drones based in Cuba as a result?

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

Emmanuel Macron is trying to get the Security Council to police the Strait of Hormuz once the shooting dies down. This isn't the worst idea, since Trump was begging for help from the wrong organization. If he pulls it off, it might even put him in contention for a Nobel Peace Prize (a real one, not one from a football association).

Boru

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

Trump's now talking about pulling out of Iran. Not that he even put it in. Sounds like he's going to declare the war won and swagger off, leaving the mess for grown-ups to clean up. Since that'll leave him short of an actual win, we can expect him to strike Cuba next in the vain hope of distracting Americans from his multiple and manifest failures. That's going to go about as well as you'd expect. Who figures we'll have Iranian missiles and drones based in Cuba as a result?

(Bold mine)

A frustrated Iran  could not be reached for comment. 

Boru

[Leonardo17]

Thumpalumpagus:
 
- The Middle-East
 
Ivan Denisovich:
 
I read about the Anti-Trump and Anti Netanyahu rallies in Paris and Spain today.




 
It is good to see that people in the West have empathy for the people of this region.  
 
We still need a plan for the future of Israel. If the Israelis still have feeling of insecurity they may vote for even more extremist leaders in the next election.
 
It’s about breaking the cycle of violence now. And I don’t know how this is going to happen with the current US government. I think that China + Europe will have to step in at some point like France is trying to do right now in Lebanon.
 
By the way, did D. Trump just declare victory and move out of the war?
 
https://edition.cnn.com/world/live-news/...p-03-23-26
 
“Country you defend so ardently gave itself that "right". That's what happen when murderous regimes aren't stopped.”
 
- Yes but that country has been under siege since the day it was created. All Arab countries in the region see it as an intrusive element and it was only recently that some Arab countries started to approve their very right to exist. Israelis too are human beings like the rest of us. All I am saying is that an inclusive solution is needed here.
 
“Iran is victim of israel aggression no matter how unpalatable it's regime. I don't like Iran but you have hate boner toward it for some reason.”
 
- Iran’s regime was problematic even before 1979. But remember the first thing they did in 79. They sacked the US embassy and took all the Americans there as hostages.
 
Ex: They still randomly arrest French and other European who did nothing to them and use them as bargaining chips to obtain the release of their spires, terrorists and propagandists in Europe.
 
All of these are acts of war.
 
And a note on the burning of US / Israeli flags. In WWI the Greeks had done a lot of that to our flag. But when the city of İzmir was freed in 1922, the founder of our republic refused to disrespect the flag of a then enemy country in this way.
 
The IRI is not a regime that seeks peace. There isn’t a single element of doubt in that.
 
“We aren't in  60's or 70's. Knowledge of Stalin and Hitler crimes is freely available.”
 
- True.
 
“It wouldn't be the first time when many people believed in lies. Especially when they lived elsewhere not in "paradise" they supposedly dreamt off.”
 
- As I said, I still support some of these ideals. While being completely sober of some of the myths that the generations before me were believing rather blindly
 
“Wow. It only took you however many posts to show some basic decency.”
 
- No. Let’s say both of us have missed each other’s points in our first few messages to one another.
 
“Your "message" is one of absolving israel of blame so I reject it. I never wrote about Hezbollah if I recall correctly but Hamas dudes are freedom fighters fighting against genocidal regime. They might use unpalatable tactics but partisans fighting with nazis also weren't lily white in their deeds.
 
Also "your terrorists are our freedom fighters". I simply happen to understand that violence and oppression will result in violent resistance and I blame Hamas not a tit as israel have monstrous crimes on what passes for it's conscience. It's absurdity to expect that oppressed answer will be measured when they suffer daily.”
 
- I disagree. Hamas is an extremist organization that was created by Israel to subdue all of the more civilized / rational movement of Palestinian resistance. And Iran controls this very organization to attack Israel. So young Israelis are dying at the Nova music festival and Palestinians have their lives reduced to rubble because of that.
 
You are not seeing that both elements are actually killing us there. I think you need to sober up on that too.
 
“So we need israel to be stopped. They aren't world police, nor they have licence to kill.”
 
No. There needs to be elections in Israel, and there has to be a Palestinian authority that has a degree of military power. And the two need to sit on the table with yet a different US President so that a new Oslo-Accord is signed.
 
See right now, the Gazans don’t even have houses anymore.
 
So criticizing is good. But we need solutions too.
 
Personally: I don’t thin these people should even live there anymore. I think Egypt should take them and let the Israeli put the whole place in their b… if this makes them happy
 
“I know that Hamas was supported by israel.”
 
- And that’s a key part in their strategy. If you get the other side to act like animals then you can say to the whole world “These guys are not humans, and that’s why I am taking everything they have and give them nothing in return”
 
- There are very evil forces at work here. And there is no solution as long as we can identify these evil actors and neutralize them to some degree.
 
“I don't know about this alleged "political islam". What I do know is that israel is guilty of genocide while Iran wasn't credibly (or at all to the best of my knowledge) accused of it and that israel started war so it's criminal in chief can postpone trial for corruption (if I recall news correctly).”
 
Both sides have politicized religious faith. The Messianic Jews and their Messianic Christian supporters.
 
These are two twisted religious interpretation that have brought chaos to the whole region since 1949. If all of them simply denied their religious faith the problem would end within hours.
 
“No. You ascribe whatever evils you can to Iran while saying that SU wasn't really evil. You make up imagined scenarios with Iran as a bad guy (Iran wouldn't have backed off in Cuba missile crisis). You're obsessed with it. Fact however is that no matter how bad Iran is it is still miles better than israel as it is israel that is guilty of genocide not Iran.”
 
- Once we have both learned one another’s position on these subjects we can just approve of that and move to the next topic.


 
 
 
 
Thumpalumpagus:
 
“...
If Leonardo wants to hunt up apologia for war-criminals let him sleep in the bed Erdogan has made for him. Because it appears the apple hasn't fallen far from the tree here. Autocrats gonna cozy up.”
 
- Me and my friends have been tear gazed by Erdogans police. Let’s not go there
 
The issue is this. There are being waves of popular unrest in Iran since the “Arab Sprin” in the 2010s. Each time these (very brave) Iranians are taking to the streets and each time the regime is repressing them by hanging them or killing them directly in the streets.
 
And Iranian activists in the West are begging us to shut down our embassies, add the IRG to the list of terrorist organizations, isolate Iran in the international scene and intervene in Iran if this is what it takes to end this brutal regime. They are even brandishing flag of the previous monarchy regime which (I’m reminding you) wasn’t that popular at the time either. But the main message here is that people have had it.
 
And this isn’t Israeli propaganda. Netanyahu seems to be willing to us this to his advantage. But that doesn’t change the facts. Only 20% of Iranians are supporting this regime. And that’s because they are complete fanatics and/or thieves who do not want to give up their economic privileges.
 
You Know:
 
- Maybe we should simply colonize Mars. I don’t really like the way things are working in this planet

[Thumpalumpacus]

Thumpalumpagus:
 
- The Middle-East

Pack some food, you'll be at it a while.

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

@Leonardo17

By the way, did D. Trump just declare victory and move out of the war?

No, he did not. What he did was lie about ‘productive talks’ with Iran in an attempt to calm the stock and commodities markets (which is working, for now).

Always be aware that Trump is not a source.

Boru

[Ivan Denisovich]

We still need a plan for the future of Israel. If the Israelis still have feeling of insecurity they may vote for even more extremist leaders in the next election.
 
It’s about breaking the cycle of violence now. And I don’t know how this is going to happen with the current US government. I think that China + Europe will have to step in at some point like France is trying to do right now in Lebanon.

Europe don't really give a shit about dead Palestinians. As of now genocidal regime isn't even sanctioned (unless something happened with no news coverage) so talking about Europe stepping in is a pure fantasy.
 

- Yes but that country has been under siege since the day it was created. All Arab countries in the region see it as an intrusive element and it was only recently that some Arab countries started to approve their very right to exist. Israelis too are human beings like the rest of us. All I am saying is that an inclusive solution is needed here.

Israel was established in 1948 and celebrated it by ethnic cleansing in the same year (Nakba). It was criminal regime since it's very inception and if zionism was really important in creating it then it was criminal even before birth as zionism was nothing more than colonial ideology denying personhood to Palestinians:

The first attempts to settle European Jews in Palestine and thus restore the glory of the Holy Land appeared as early as the first half of the 19th century. “It is worth noting,” Malm reminds us, "that this was a wholly Christian and Anglo-Saxon fantasy, in which Jews actually living in the Middle East or elsewhere had no active participation."[31] It was in 1839 that the phrase was most likely first coined—by Lord Shaftesbury in the pages of The Times—as “a land without people” and “people without a land,” which Shaftesbury in The Times, of a “land without a people” and “a people without a land,” which then became the most important slogan of Zionism: "A land without a people for a people without a land." British public opinion and increasingly wider circles of European intellectuals did indeed promote the belief that Palestine was uninhabited and ready for settlement.
[Paweł Mościcki, Gaza. On the Culture of Extermination, p.37-38]*

So forgive me but I simply don't give a shit about this criminal regime delusions.
 

Iran’s regime was problematic even before 1979. But remember the first thing they did in 79. They sacked the US embassy and took all the Americans there as hostages.

So? That gives genocidal piece of shit right to attack it alongside his orange puppet? That give those scum right to kill children?

Incidentally israel was problematic (as in doing ethnic cleansing problematic) since it was created. Does that give other countries right to attack it whenever they wish or it's only israel that can use history as a pretext for war?
 

Ex: They still randomly arrest French and other European who did nothing to them and use them as bargaining chips to obtain the release of their spires, terrorists and propagandists in Europe.

Citation needed.
 

All of these are acts of war.

If such happen at all then it is a crime rather than casus belli. And even if one think that it is a reason for war then israel have no right to start it as it ain't wronged party here.

Your apologia is nothing more than bullshit.
 

The IRI is not a regime that seeks peace. There isn’t a single element of doubt in that.

Sure, sure. I hope netanyahu pays you well for fellating him and his genocidal shithole of a cuntry.

It's israel that is aggressor and no amount of your lies will change reality.
 

As I said, I still support some of these ideals. While being completely sober of some of the myths that the generations before me were believing rather blindly

I can see it. Thanks for confirming my suspicions about you being walking piece of shit.
 

- No. Let’s say both of us have missed each other’s points in our first few messages to one another.

No. As what you write above shows you're nothing more than israel useful idiot and apologist for genocidal regime.
 

- I disagree. Hamas is an extremist organization that was created by Israel to subdue all of the more civilized / rational movement of Palestinian resistance. And Iran controls this very organization to attack Israel. So young Israelis are dying at the Nova music festival and Palestinians have their lives reduced to rubble because of that.

Is there anything that Iran does not control? Hamas is merely an answer for decades of israel barbarity. I can't say that I like them or approve of killing civilians but I sooner will stand with oppressed rather than oppressor. Oppressor who I will constantly remind you is guilty of genocide.
 

You are not seeing that both elements are actually killing us there. I think you need to sober up on that too.

Whatever you say mr. israel did nothing wrong.
 

No. There needs to be elections in Israel, and there has to be a Palestinian authority that has a degree of military power. And the two need to sit on the table with yet a different US President so that a new Oslo-Accord is signed.

No. israel is a genocidal regime that started it's existence with ethnic cleansing. It needs to be stopped and if it would took force to do it then it would be nothing more than justice. Nothing of that sort will happen though as despite protests of ordinary people world isn't particularly concerned with israel atrocities.
 

Personally: I don’t thin these people should even live there anymore. I think Egypt should take them and let the Israeli put the whole place in their b… if this makes them happy

At last you're showing your true colors. Favoring ethnic cleansing over sensible solution. netanyahu would be proud of you.
 

And that’s a key part in their strategy. If you get the other side to act like animals then you can say to the whole world “These guys are not humans, and that’s why I am taking everything they have and give them nothing in return”

It's israel that act like animal. Palestinians merely lash out after decades of oppression.
 

There are very evil forces at work here. And there is no solution as long as we can identify these evil actors and neutralize them to some degree.

No. It's genocidal regime that uses sympathy gained from abhorrent crime (Shoah) as a shield against any atrocity it commit.
 

Once we have both learned one another’s position on these subjects we can just approve of that and move to the next topic.

Why would I approve of your delusions, lack of morals and apologia of genocidal regime?

[Thumpalumpacus]

@Leonardo17

By the way, did D. Trump just declare victory and move out of the war?

No, he did not. What he did was lie about ‘productive talks’ with Iran in an attempt to calm the stock and commodities markets (which is working, for now).

Always be aware that Trump is not a source.

Boru

I think he is going to try the pigeon-and-chessboard dance. I've said that since he began this assault. There are no clear victory conditions, but Trump has a pathological need to be seen as the winner even though we all know this is a losing gambit.

I think Leo got this one right. Trump is setting the stage for sneaking out the back door.

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

@Leonardo17


No, he did not. What he did was lie about ‘productive talks’ with Iran in an attempt to calm the stock and commodities markets (which is working, for now).

Always be aware that Trump is not a source.

Boru

I think he is going to try the pigeon-and-chessboard dance. I've said that since he began this assault. There are no clear victory conditions, but Trump has a pathological need to be seen as the winner even though we all know this is a losing gambit.

I think Leo got this one right. Trump is setting the stage for sneaking out the back door.

Very possibly. Maybe that’s why he TACOed on his threat to destroy Iran’s energy infrastructure - they called his bluff.

Boru