If there's no God, nothing is right or wrong

[AngelThMan]

If there's no God, nothing is objectively right or wrong or evil. Do you agree?

No, I do not agree.

According to Google, "objective" as an adjective means:

"Free from bias: Based strictly on observable facts, evidence, and reality rather than personal emotions, beliefs, or interpretations. (Example: objective evidence or an objective appraisal)"

Simply put, rights are based on facts and wrongs and evils are based on lies.

Since belief in God is just that -- a belief -- it is not an objective standard for anything by this definition.  Without establishing that God is the over-arching Truth, you can't maintain that any objective standards flow from that assumption, although you most certainly can believe it.

I think a confusion arises because morality and ethics can be both objective (based on facts) as well as relative to the interests of particular humans, making them different between groups and individuals.  We have complex laws and courts to discriminate and decide about different cases for this reason, all while we uphold general principles.

Only if there are no facts can there be no objective moral and ethical standards.  I don't know any atheists who claim there are no facts.  Most of the atheists I know uphold the highest standards of accuracy available from science and philosophy.  They leave the belief in God out of their considerations because it is a mere belief.

Of course other atheists do define the issues differently, but then we are only talking about definitions.

“Free from bias: Based strictly on observable facts, evidence, and reality rather than personal emotions, beliefs, or interpretations.”

You think this definition helps you but it actually helps me. Your morals can only be based on personal emotions, beliefs and interpretations as an atheist. For example, say you think capital punishment is wrong. What is your, or anyone’s, evidence this stance is the morally correct one?

“Since belief in God is just that -- a belief -- it is not an objective standard for anything by this definition. “

Why do atheists always bring it to the ‘belief in God doesn’t establish a standard’ argument? It’s a red herring fallacy because I have not made any such claims. My commentary is about atheism, not theism. Under atheism, there cannot not be an objective moral standard. I’ve claimed NOTHING about morality under any deity. Do you understand? My comment is an internal critique of atheism. If you can show me how there can be objective morality under atheism, or admit there can’t be, then we can move on to any topic of your liking.

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

@AngelThMan

Under atheism, there cannot not be an objective moral standard. 

Have you considered the possibility that an ‘objective moral standard’ simply doesn’t exist?

Boru

[AngelThMan]

This shows your stupidity and the stupidity of most atheists that have replied to this thread. I NEVER CLAIMED THAT OBJECTIVE MORALITY STANDARDS EXIST WITH A DEITY. The topic is: Without a deity, an objective moral standard cannot exist. That's it. Those are different topics. If you understood philosophy, you would understand that answering that I haven't established morality under a deity is not addressing the topic. It's a red herring fallacy. You are changing the topic, but never even tried to refute my premise. If you don't believe me, ask ai

Unfortunately, you wrote the word "god" with a capital "G" in the thread title and your opening post, referring to your christian god. You didnt say "without a god". You can lie all the time on this forum, but you cant beat your christian habits all the time.

If there's no God, nothing is objectively right or wrong or evil. Do you agree?

You do think objective morals exist, and you think they come from your god. Your mod is to push as hard as you can to make anyone agree that without a god (small "g") objective morals dont exist*, only to claim your God (capital "G") is the source of objective morals in the next step. How often do you think we have seen this script in the past 15 years? Please stop pretending its about anything else but that.
 
Demonstrate your god exists
and
that objective morals exist
or fuck off

The truth is (in your theist worldview): Objective morals can exist without your god. Ask any Muslim.


* although they dont exist too with your or any other god. Have you finally educated yourself about objective morals? Looks like you didnt.

You haven't demonstrated there can be objective morality under atheism, which is the topic I posted. Switching to "provide evidence" is a red herring fallacy. So you fuck off, moron

[Paleophyte]

Just another theist claiming absolute truth with no ability to demonstrate anything other than a subjective method for determining which god to base it all on.

[AngelThMan]

Obvious? How? That's not an answer. I'm boggled by the dumb answers I get from so-called brilliant atheists.

How is physical reality not obvious to you?

Or perhaps it's the difficult link between reality and morality?

On a personal note, you're not trying to make a positive first impression, are you? Awesome, we've got another Twat Waffle for Christ.

First impression? I've been here for 15 years, newbie.

When did I say anything about "physical reality???" Can you read, asswipe? I was responding to someone who said objective morality under atheism is obvious, though never offered how it's possible

[Paleophyte]

So you fuck off, moron

Listen up, you pustulent boil on the arse of an incontinent hippopotamus. If you aren't going to even pretend to have the limited wits necessary to produce an interesting insult, then there's clearly no use for you in this or any other world. Now, if you'll excuse me, I have to take your mom out for a weekend on my boat so that she might finally have a child that she's proud of.

[AngelThMan]

@AngelThMan

Under atheism, there cannot not be an objective moral standard. 

Have you considered the possibility that an ‘objective moral standard’ simply doesn’t exist?

Boru

If God doesn't exist, an objective moral standard simply doesn't exist. That's been my point all along. Do you agree?

[AngelThMan]

So you fuck off, moron

Listen up, you pustulent boil on the arse of an incontinent hippopotamus. If you aren't going to even pretend to have the limited wits necessary to produce an interesting insult, then there's clearly no use for you in this or any other world. Now, if you'll excuse me, I have to take your mom out for a weekend on my boat so that she might finally have a child that she's proud of.

You fucked your dad in the ass

[Paleophyte]

First impression? I've been here for 15 years, newbie.

Existing and being here are two very different things, as your children must know by now.

When did I say anything about "physical reality???" Can you read, asswipe? I was responding to someone who said objective morality under atheism is obvious, though never offered how it's possible

When you replied to my statement about the relationship between physical reality and morality being obvious, you drooling cretin. Was it the extra chromosomes, being dropped at birth, or the lead paint on your cradle?

[Paleophyte]

Listen up, you pustulent boil on the arse of an incontinent hippopotamus. If you aren't going to even pretend to have the limited wits necessary to produce an interesting insult, then there's clearly no use for you in this or any other world. Now, if you'll excuse me, I have to take your mom out for a weekend on my boat so that she might finally have a child that she's proud of.

You fucked your dad in the ass

Is that really the best you can do? Your deity must be so disappointed that it created syphilis and all it got was you.