Prayer ... SERIOUSLY?!

[Statler Waldorf]

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Actually, "because it works for us" isn't a logical argument for why something is true.

Some believers say "I was addicted to drugs and then I found Jesus. Christianity works for my life. Therefore it's true." This is not a rational argument to convert to Christianity. This may be the reason he chose to be a Christian but it's not a rational one. It's a value judgment. It depends both on the presumption of cause/effect (that "finding Jesus" broke his addiction) and on someone deciding that being addicted to drugs is a bad thing. Personally, I agree but that's based on my value judgment on what I want to get out of my own life.

Maybe an someone might decide they like living in the Dark Ages, in which case the magical thinking of Christianity would work better to that end than science and reason. The fact that I like the results that science and reason seem to offer is not a rational reason to choose science and reason. It's based on my desires of the kind of world I want to live in.

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So you are saying you don't have a logical reason for adhering to the laws of logic? Besides, how do you know they work? What is your other standard you use to determine they actually lead to truth?

We're discussing why we should use secular reason as opposed to Christian thinking.

You didn't say secular reason, you just said reason. I would not have called you on it if you had said secular reasoning. Even though any form of reasoning would not be possible in an atheistic universe.

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It's an assertion you dispute? Fine. Turn to page 1 of the Bible and tell me if Yahweh created plants and animals before or after creating man. Your answer must be consistent with both chapter 1 and chapter 2 of Genesis.

May the Hold Spirit telepathically guide you to the correct answer.

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Plants and animals were created before Adam. The Hebrew tense of the verb for "formed" is properly translated in Chapter 2 in context as "had formed" like it appears in the ESV. Any other alleged contradictions?

[Epimethean]

You read Hebrew, Statler? Greek?

[BloodyHeretic]

Any other alleged contradictions?

2 Samuel 24:1
And the anger of the Lord was kindled against Israel, and he moved David against them to say, Go number Israel and Judah.

1 Chronicles 21:1
And Satan stood up against Israel and provoked David to number Israel.

[Statler Waldorf]

You read Hebrew, Statler? Greek?

Nope, but those who do have no issue with the accounts of creation in chapters 1 and 2.

[Epimethean]

So you're just going on belief there.

[DeistPaladin]

So you are saying you don't have a logical reason for adhering to the laws of logic?

Correct, I use logic because I like the results.

Plants and animals were created before Adam. The Hebrew tense of the verb for "formed" is properly translated in Chapter 2 in context as "had formed" like it appears in the ESV. Any other alleged contradictions?

Plants were created on day 3. Animals were created on day 5 and 6. Humans, both man and woman, were created at the same time after animals.

[reverendjeremiah]

So you are saying you don't have a logical reason for adhering to the laws of logic?

Correct, I use logic because I like the results.

Plants and animals were created before Adam. The Hebrew tense of the verb for "formed" is properly translated in Chapter 2 in context as "had formed" like it appears in the ESV. Any other alleged contradictions?

Plants were created on day 3. Animals were created on day 5 and 6. Humans, both man and woman, were created at the same time after animals.

What a waste of time... there is no reasoning with trolls and their quirks. You merely ignore them and they go away...shoo troll waldork...go back under your bridge

[Cinjin]

Statler again? Really??

How many times have we seen what is essentially the same argument over and over and over again??

Responding to questions with ludicrous, unanswerable questions. Constant use of the "hebrew context" argument. And the always infuriating - redefining words, like logic, how you see fit.

I'm trying to be more patient and understanding towards YECs like yourself and you're just KILLIN it man!

[Minimalist]

You read Hebrew, Statler? Greek?

He's a tad weak on English, too.

[reverendjeremiah]

You read Hebrew, Statler? Greek?

He's a tad weak on English, too.

Hes a tad weak on free thought as well