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July 4, 2011 at 1:39 am (This post was last modified: July 4, 2011 at 2:18 am by The Grand Nudger.)
Perhaps that's true. Frodo may not be willfully ignorant...he may know exactly how ridiculous his arguments are...and he's just fucking with me. It's a possibility. Thing is, I ask honest , though admittedly aggressive questions about peoples beliefs, I truly want to understand. All i get in return are platitudes, factually meaningless definitions of god, and ignorance. That people derive great meaning from their religious beliefs is not something that I take lightly. Here are people who claim to have profound insights into purpose, the human condition, and happiness. Yet when pressed, they offer nothing.
Like any masochist...I ask the next person who comes along and start the cycle all over again.
All joking aside, is it difficult to understand why this frustrates me Sae? I've spent the better part of two decades immersing myself in religious belief. It's not through lack of looking, or lack of understanding that I haven't found god. I am unable to have these sorts of conversations in my day to day life, and so I end up here. I would appreciate it if believers would consider for a moment that I may not be ignorant of the subject or it's history. I would appreciate it if believers would offer a single scrap, one iota, of intellectual honesty. It's been my experience thus far in life and on these boards, that these people are in the business of peddling gibberish, and not so much the business of having an actual discussion. If they simply believe, and have never taken the time to consider their beliefs, that's okay with me. All opinions are equal in value. All information is not. Yet never, never do I hear "I honestly hadn't considered it, I just don't know". Instead, affirmation upon affirmation, fallacy upon fallacy. It arouses an immense amount of disappointment in me, and I become exceedingly hostile with them over time. This isn't what I want. I don't assume that this is their aim either...trolls aside.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
(July 3, 2011 at 9:18 pm)Rhythm Wrote: The opposite being the "Hard Atheist", a type of fetish porn, where well endowed german men thrust towards the camera while quoting Nietzsche.
Hey, that sounds most stimulating! Do you know where I can get some of this? LOL
I think it usually comes with the chocolate milk enema sequel.
July 4, 2011 at 8:05 am (This post was last modified: July 4, 2011 at 8:07 am by fr0d0.)
Rhythm Wrote:
All joking aside, is it difficult to understand why this frustrates me Sae? I've spent the better part of two decades immersing myself in religious belief. It's not through lack of looking, or lack of understanding that I haven't found god. I am unable to have these sorts of conversations in my day to day life, and so I end up here. I would appreciate it if believers would consider for a moment that I may not be ignorant of the subject or it's history. I would appreciate it if believers would offer a single scrap, one iota, of intellectual honesty. It's been my experience thus far in life and on these boards, that these people are in the business of peddling gibberish, and not so much the business of having an actual discussion. If they simply believe, and have never taken the time to consider their beliefs, that's okay with me. All opinions are equal in value. All information is not. Yet never, never do I hear "I honestly hadn't considered it, I just don't know". Instead, affirmation upon affirmation, fallacy upon fallacy. It arouses an immense amount of disappointment in me, and I become exceedingly hostile with them over time. This isn't what I want. I don't assume that this is their aim either...trolls aside.
That seems to be the difficulty, that you can't have direct discussions about it. Especially here... people are going to be entrenched in their 'sides'. That was what I was trying to get across to you in chat, to drop the dogma... but you kept pulling me back to it. In that convo I was unnecessarily verbose, I was tired - it was 2am, and I wasn't feeling particularly articulate. Never stopped me before I know Still.. I think what I was saying was applicable ...and that you were closed to it.
I also think you're perverting the truth... like me when I say I hate any army and all squaddies. From what you said (in the other thread) I would probably 100% agree and kudos your actions and attitudes. See I think you're doing the same thing as you're accusing others of... you're painting with a broad brush where there's a lot you understand and can accept. Sorry if I got you wrong there. That's how it looks to me.
I thuink here as well there are a lot of us who have too much fun taking the piss out of each other. RevJ gets a little cry baby hat on every now and again untill he lightens up a bit. We're kinda hypocritical then saying the other side isn't taking on out POV.
July 4, 2011 at 11:08 am (This post was last modified: July 4, 2011 at 11:12 am by The Grand Nudger.)
My brush is neccessarily broad, in that I've always maintained that the whole idea of a god; start to finish, is foolish and requires that one close their eyes to almost the entirety of human knowledge on nearly every subject. When pressed for why I make this statement, I link or explain things from fact, from direct observation. Have you ever known me to offer up a platitude instead of an actual argument? In what way, exactly, are my tactics or arguments similar to the arguments you've seen me field from believers?
That I am closed to the idea of any specific god, in the same way that a believer is closed to the idea of "no specific god" is perhaps superficially true....the similarity ends the minute I explain myself though doesn't it.
When asked how I can absolutely know that a specific god doesn't exist..I point to a cargo cult. When a believer is asked how they can know that their specific god does exist..........? That I am unwilling to accept the factual reality of a cargo cult is not a "just because" kind of thing, I'm refusing to accept their point of view because it is demonstrably false.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
Have I made myself that unclear, or are you just baiting me..lol. You know I love you either way.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
just take time and sort out your views. Don't rush to label yourself.
I used to live in a room full of mirrors; all I could see was me. I take my spirit and I crash my mirrors, now the whole world is here for me to see. Jimi Hendrix
I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not. Kurt Cobain
I agree, the need to label oneself is just the need to neatly fit into a category with others. Just figure out what you believe, and then if needed, figure out what category those beliefs fall into. If you try to hard to label yourself it can distort your beliefs.
Even if the open windows of science at first make us shiver after the cozy indoor warmth of traditional humanizing myths, in the end the fresh air brings vigor, and the great spaces have a splendor of their own - Bertrand Russell
Still.. I think what I was saying was applicable ...and that you were closed to it.
