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Bad Arguments for God
#51
RE: Bad Arguments for God
Science is based on experience. So is religion. Skeptics will insist that it is a requirement to have an experience of science, but experience of religion is impossible, so it does not need to be sought out. They will admit that it is not possible to prove that religious experience is impossible but they will invoke probabilistic arguments to prove that they don't need to spend the energy or deny themselves to find out if it is true.

They will insist that religious believes need to have the collective experience and interpretation of modern science, but will not place that obligation upon themselves.

How does Occam's razor deal with the belief or half belief that "all experience is explainable by science in the twentieth century" which could perhaps be understood to link explanation of the origin of the universe in very complicated guesswork.

Why should people accept that it is acceptable to have no explanation at all? That doesn't seem like a simple or straightforward explanation, and it would be one that Occam would have rejected.

Necessarily, there is a right way to live that comes from a God who created life and gave it that character or there is no right way to live and there is no creator who gave life that character.

There is nothing inherently simple about the large number of assumptions required to sustain the second, although if you look at the issue in a dishonest, narrow technical review of one issue, perhaps it would seem that you could use Occams razor to prove an arrogant presumption of nihilism.
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#52
RE: Bad Arguments for God
I prefer the disposable Bic two-blade, myself...when I choose to shave. Anyway. Generally, yes, given two competing theories, both of which adequately explain all relevant phenomena, the simplest theory is to be preferred. That does not prove that the simplest theory is correct, nor does it disprove more complex theories. OR does not provide any definitive answer, so it does not satisfy as a formal proof.

Occamm's Razor does not 'destroy' every theistic argument. That's because it cuts both ways. Given a supposed miraculous event, the believer will say, "it was God" and the atheist will say, "it was X physical cause." Both of the competing explanations must be evaluated on their own merits. It is fallacious to hold a bias toward naturalistic causes just because you believe naturalism must be true.

At the same time, jumping to the conclusion that everything unexplained must be attributed to God is a naive attitude. The believer whose faith is predicated on miracles or the incompleteness of science is on shaky ground. A mature God-based theory would not explain only any particular cause, but ultimately all causes. The field of action for a Supreme Being encompasses all of reality and not just a particular instance.
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#53
RE: Bad Arguments for God
(April 4, 2013 at 10:57 am)jstrodel Wrote: Science is based on experience.
Evidence, strodel, evidence, and a whole host of other things as well...in part to remove one's individual experience from the equation - because we have found it to be consistently faulty.

Quote:So is religion. Skeptics will insist that it is a requirement to have an experience of science,
evidence, that's what skeptics insist upon, evidence. I understand that you're allergic to the word.

Quote:but experience of religion is impossible, so it does not need to be sought out. They will admit that it is not possible to prove that religious experience is impossible
Depends on the experience, actually. Plenty of experiences are just flat out impossible, and I'm okay with stating it bluntly. No one was transported to the planet gleegork 40k light years away to speak with some galactic overlord about the keys to unlock the cosmos - for example.

Quote: but they will invoke probabilistic arguments to prove that they don't need to spend the energy or deny themselves to find out if it is true.

They will insist that religious believes need to have the collective experience and interpretation of modern science, but will not place that obligation upon themselves.
Perhaps you should reword this so that it forms a coherent thought?

Quote:How does Occam's razor deal with the belief or half belief that "all experience is explainable by science in the twentieth century" which could perhaps be understood to link explanation of the origin of the universe in very complicated guesswork.
Who believes that?

Quote:Why should people accept that it is acceptable to have no explanation at all? That doesn't seem like a simple or straightforward explanation, and it would be one that Occam would have rejected.
Who accepts that? Certainly not the people who spend their lives looking for explanations - you know - scientists. I certainly don't feel that it;s acceptable to lack an explanation for something, but I don't have any aversion to being honest about what explanations we have. Some people can't help themselves though - habitually lying for their fairies. It's insulting.

Quote:Necessarily, there is a right way to live that comes from a God who created life and gave it that character or there is no right way to live and there is no creator who gave life that character.
Necessarrily? LOL, get to work demonstrating this, bring your god over here so we can have a look, show that life was "created" or that any character was "given"? I don't seem to have any trouble finding "the right way to live" in the absence of your fantasies.
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#54
RE: Bad Arguments for God
My favorite argument that I've seen goes something like this:

1. Bugga zwoop shing wung nurrrg quockarama boiiinnnnnggg*
2. No one has ever disproved point #1
3. Therefore God exists

Praise! Glory!

* ...or something to that effect; I don't remember the actual quote.
"You don't need facts when you got Jesus." -Pastor Deacon Fred, Landover Baptist Church

™: True Christian is a Trademark of the Landover Baptist Church. I have no affiliation with this fine group of True Christians ™ because I can't afford their tithing requirements but would like to be. Maybe someday the Lord will bless me with enough riches that I am able to. 

And for the lovers of Poe, here's your winking smiley:  Wink
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