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I'm an atheist, and I recently started a Ph.D. and I was talking to one of my fellow students who has the same supervisor as me. She warned that our supervisor is a pretty serious Christian and not to say anything offensive. Apparently in his free time it's pretty active with his church. He even used to put bible quotes in his email signature before someone complained because that's against the university's policy.
I don't have any particular problem having a Christian as a supervisor and I don't intend to bring up the subject, but (on top of my million and one other worries about starting a Ph.D.) I'm just worried that there might be conflict at some time between now and the end of the next three years. Given enough time something might slip about the fact that I and all my friends are pretty serious atheists and anti-theists.
How do I make sure none of this ever comes up and how do I deflect attention for it if it does? I mean I don't even know if he has a problem with atheists or not, it's just safer if I make sure it's not mentioned. Do you have any advice?
July 24, 2011 at 8:14 pm (This post was last modified: July 24, 2011 at 8:16 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
LOL, hopefully you're not not studying any of the physical sciences. You could just avoid it altogether. Not a word..lol. The man is (presumably) qualified. You have some stories about his having thin skin with regards to his beliefs. I wouldn't worry about what hasn't happened.
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Just don't mention it. If it comes up in conversation at some point (whether he/she asks about your beliefs or finds out you are an atheist), just say "I don't like talking about my private beliefs.", or "My religious views are personal, and I don't like talking about them."
You could always say that you respect people of all beliefs, as long as they don't try to preach or convert you over to their side. You'd much rather prefer to live in a diverse but peaceful society.
Basically, if you don't make an issue of it, and strive to be as open and welcoming as possible, then there is no reason for your supervisor to bring it up or try to harass you over it. Remember though, that if he does start doing that, you should speak to the head of department and try to get your supervisor changed. It isn't worth embarking on a PhD with a supervisor who you can't get along with, especially if you've made the effort.
I'd say if you have three years to go under this Supervisor and he already disregards policy by including Bible quotes in his signature, you can pretty much rest assured he's one of those Christians that believes he answers to a higher calling than University policy or man's laws.
And if he's called on the carpet for the email signature violation, he'll most likely cite religious bias.
There are militant Christians that believe that secularism is pushing to outlaw or prohibit by policies or implication, the Christian religion. When individuals, groups, the Constitution and it's alluding to the separation of church and State per the 1st amendment, are utilized to stop what is the actual push by Christians to insure their faith's standards are implemented within the secular realm, the militant Christian will once again play the victim. As if it's simply inconceivable to not want a business, a PTA, a government funded public school system, women's health clinics, etc... to adopt Christian moral values by law or policy.
That being said, if he sends you any emails with that nifty violation in the signature, save them. If you can manage it, send them to file you can keep somewhere where it can't be accessed at the University. Keep anything he sends you with anything religious that is in violation of University policy.
Because by including that signature in his emails, as a Supervisor knowing full well he's violating policy, he's sending the message he's a Christian and he shall not be persuaded to comport himself in a way the secular realm requires by policy. Which is a message received by fellow Theists, who would be in accord with that attitude. And to all non-Christians, so as to insure they know they should comport themselves in a manner conducive to pleasing his religious values.
Which is working, because of the warning you received from a fellow student who clearly has experienced what he's like as a supervisor who is a Christian first.
If it were me and he approached me outright about faith, asked my religious affiliation, etc... I'd smile and remind him very politely that this is a University and not a church. And as such I don't feel comfortable violating policy by disregarding the line between the two. And then I'd ask, very politely, that he refrain from further inquiry of that part of my personal life that does not come under his purview.
"In life you can never be too kind or too fair; everyone you meet is carrying a heavy load. When you go through your day expressing kindness and courtesy to all you meet, you leave behind a feeling of warmth and good cheer, and you help alleviate the burdens everyone is struggling with."
Brian Tracy
July 24, 2011 at 8:45 pm (This post was last modified: July 24, 2011 at 8:47 pm by Justtristo.)
(July 24, 2011 at 8:10 pm)Lauren Wrote: I'm an atheist, and I recently started a Ph.D. and I was talking to one of my fellow students who has the same supervisor as me. She warned that our supervisor is a pretty serious Christian and not to say anything offensive. Apparently in his free time it's pretty active with his church. He even used to put bible quotes in his email signature before someone complained because that's against the university's policy.
I don't have any particular problem having a Christian as a supervisor and I don't intend to bring up the subject, but (on top of my million and one other worries about starting a Ph.D.) I'm just worried that there might be conflict at some time between now and the end of the next three years. Given enough time something might slip about the fact that I and all my friends are pretty serious atheists and anti-theists.
How do I make sure none of this ever comes up and how do I deflect attention for it if it does? I mean I don't even know if he has a problem with atheists or not, it's just safer if I make sure it's not mentioned. Do you have any advice?
Thx. x.
In my experience many strong Christians are like bears and it is advisable not to poke them even accidentally. Since their beliefs are very often based on emotional feelings rather than reason and logic.
July 24, 2011 at 9:08 pm (This post was last modified: July 24, 2011 at 9:16 pm by Lauren.)
Thanks.
For what I know he's very experienced and established in the field, and is supervising lots of students, and I'm sure perfectly competent. As I said though I have a million and one other worries starting the Ph.D., this is just something is another worry to add to the heap. Piling those worries high 'till I die of anxiety.
I rarely interact with people who I am aware are religious. When I do, I try not to get in to conflict even though I'm annoyed by the whole concept of religion so I don't intend to bring it up. If I ever have any anti-theistic moods, that's what bitching at strangers on the Internet at home is for, it's not an in-real-life activity. It's reasonably easy not to bring it up on purpose, but how do you avoid accidentally have it come up?
Also, even if there's not actually a conflict, let's say he's completely professional and didn't take issue with me... do you think if he somehow found out I'm a pretty die-hard atheist he'd be subconsciously less attentive to me? You know how a good supervisor will put in a lot of intangible effort to support their students, helping with problems, thinking about their projects, and so on. It's only natural for humans to be like that.
(July 24, 2011 at 8:37 pm)Minimalist Wrote: It might help to know what field of study is involved.
Actually, I'm studying human evolution. lol, no, no just kidding, I'm not.
Someone I know got fired for mocking their boss online, so I'm just slightly weary of giving out too much detail about who I am, where I am, what I' doing and so on. I'm cross-discipline and it's partially-related to genetics, but I don't think there's too much risk of it coming up that way. I more expect it to come up by accidental casual chit-chat, you know, like around Christmas time or something.
(July 24, 2011 at 8:37 pm)Judas BentHer Wrote:
Kill 'em with platitudes.
I'd say if you have three years to go under this Supervisor and he already disregards policy by including Bible quotes in his signature, you can pretty much rest assured he's one of those Christians that believes he answers to a higher calling than University policy or man's laws.
And if he's called on the carpet for the email signature violation, he'll most likely cite religious bias.
There are militant Christians that believe that secularism is pushing to outlaw or prohibit by policies or implication, the Christian religion. When individuals, groups, the Constitution and it's alluding to the separation of church and State per the 1st amendment, are utilized to stop what is the actual push by Christians to insure their faith's standards are implemented within the secular realm, the militant Christian will once again play the victim. As if it's simply inconceivable to not want a business, a PTA, a government funded public school system, women's health clinics, etc... to adopt Christian moral values by law or policy.
That being said, if he sends you any emails with that nifty violation in the signature, save them. If you can manage it, send them to file you can keep somewhere where it can't be accessed at the University. Keep anything he sends you with anything religious that is in violation of University policy.
Because by including that signature in his emails, as a Supervisor knowing full well he's violating policy, he's sending the message he's a Christian and he shall not be persuaded to comport himself in a way the secular realm requires by policy. Which is a message received by fellow Theists, who would be in accord with that attitude. And to all non-Christians, so as to insure they know they should comport themselves in a manner conducive to pleasing his religious values.
Which is working, because of the warning you received from a fellow student who clearly has experienced what he's like as a supervisor who is a Christian first.
If it were me and he approached me outright about faith, asked my religious affiliation, etc... I'd smile and remind him very politely that this is a University and not a church. And as such I don't feel comfortable violating policy by disregarding the line between the two. And then I'd ask, very politely, that he refrain from further inquiry of that part of my personal life that does not come under his purview.
I do apologise Judas BentHer, I missed your post on first reading...
He does not currently have anything in his email signature except standard contact details. I only know that he *used* to have bible quotes because the fellow student who's been around longer than I have told me about it.
Apparently he was asked by the university to remove them and he complied with their request. I don't know the full story, but I am imagining perhaps someone complained to the heads of school - perhaps an atheist, or perhaps one of the Jews or Muslims etc. we have (or for all I know, another Christian even). Anyway, he may or may not have known a the time that it was a violation. I mean the rules students have to sign is pretty thick, I presume it's even more for the staff.
Quote:I do apologise Judas BentHer, I missed your post on first reading...
He does not currently have anything in his email signature except standard contact details. I only know that he *used* to have bible quotes because the fellow student who's been around longer than I have told me about it.
Apparently he was asked by the university to remove them and he complied with their request. I don't know the full story, but I am imagining perhaps someone complained to the heads of school - perhaps an atheist, or perhaps one of the Jews or Muslims etc. we have (or for all I know, another Christian even). Anyway, he may or may not have known a the time that it was a violation. I mean the rules students have to sign is pretty thick, I presume it's even more for the staff.
No apology needed. I projected all manner of possibilities related to your circumstance, without knowing all the details, due to my own prior experiences with a Fundy boss.
It was good of him to remove his signature when the University requested it of him. I was perhaps way off base in my thinking he could pose an issue to you.
I understand and respect your decision to keep your particulars out of it, since it's not unusual for us to read of people who suffered at both work and school, for what they posted on-line.
Though I am curious if you're studying Divinity, per someone else bringing that up earlier. I'll get over it.
"In life you can never be too kind or too fair; everyone you meet is carrying a heavy load. When you go through your day expressing kindness and courtesy to all you meet, you leave behind a feeling of warmth and good cheer, and you help alleviate the burdens everyone is struggling with."
Brian Tracy
I'd want a different adviser. Like you say you, have plenty on your plate without having to walk that tight rope. You'd like to think you could potentially make a connection, even find a mentor. Unless you think this person brings more intangibles -expertise, reputation, connections- than the alternative, ditch him and don't look back. How to do that - I have no idea.
