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RE: What distinguishes a fantasy book from the bible?
July 30, 2011 at 4:33 pm
(This post was last modified: July 30, 2011 at 4:39 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
Again, subjective decisions (like most of your objections) are the realm of human thought for the moment. A special blend of reason and emotion. They are not objectively true.
Life is indeed the purpose of life. Every cell in your body is engaged life, and the perpetuation of life, 24 hours a day. Whether or not that satisfies you, is, again, subjective.
Science can answer to theism in general, it is deism that it currently does not address, because deism is a position taken explicitly to avoid contradicting scientific discovery. Christians are not deists, they are theists. There's a difference.
We may feel lucky to be here, a happy accident, but that is a subjective description. The sun, the earth, the initial composition and eventuall environment were not accidental, nor were they lucky, or designed. These are words which do not accurately describe the state of the cosmos, and why would they, being that we have only understood much of this for a few short decades. Using arguments, or terms that were designed to convey things like fate/luck, intent/design, and chaos/accident doesn't do our modern understanding justice. You are projecting facets of your personality unto your external environment, it's okay, we all do it, but it is not, factually speaking, accurate.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: What distinguishes a fantasy book from the bible?
July 30, 2011 at 4:57 pm
Quote:I agree that science can rule out specific gods, but it cannot rule out theism in general, for example.
It can rule out every god with simple common sense and science. I ruled out theism in general, but I guess ruling out all gods is a choice.
Religion is like a Penis, you shouldn't whip it out in public and you shouldn't shove it down your child's throat.
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RE: What distinguishes a fantasy book from the bible?
July 30, 2011 at 5:07 pm
(July 30, 2011 at 4:31 pm)edk141 Wrote: It already has been discovered. It was an accident. We don't know exactly how it happened, but what we do know is it happened on its own, not through the intervention of a supernatural being. Move the fuck on. You're claiming that life happened on its own. Can you please tell me what makes you think that? Can you also please tell me what in scientific discovery rules out the possibility of a creator which made life?
(July 30, 2011 at 4:33 pm)Rhythm Wrote: Again, subjective decisions (like most of your objections) are the realm of human thought for the moment. A special blend of reason and emotion. They are not objectively true. Can you please explain further? Are you claiming there there is no truthful answer to these questions (like moral judgments)?
(July 30, 2011 at 4:33 pm)Rhythm Wrote: Life is indeed the purpose of life. Every cell in your body is engaged life, and the perpetuation of life, 24 hours a day. Whether or not that satisfies you, is, again, subjective. Maybe we're working with different definitions of "purpose"? I defined purpose as "the reason for which something exists". Given this definition, it cannot be said that the reason for which life exists is so that it can continue to exist, i.e., perpetuate itself. It doesn't make much sense. There are two options: there simply is no reason for which it exists, therefore it is an accident (happened by chance) or that there is a reason fo which it exists (or began to exist, which is more accurate in this case) in which case we should try to find out the reason.
(July 30, 2011 at 4:33 pm)Rhythm Wrote: Science can answer to theism in general, it is deism that it currently does not address, because deism is a position taken explicitly to avoid contradicting scientific discovery. Christians are not deists, they are theists. There's a difference. Could you please provide an example of science addressing theism in general?
(July 30, 2011 at 4:33 pm)Rhythm Wrote: We may feel lucky to be here, a happy accident, but that is a subjective description. The sun, the earth, the initial composition and eventuall environment were not accidental, nor were they lucky, or designed. These are words which do not accurately describe the state of the cosmos, and why would they, being that we have only understood much of this for a few short decades. Using arguments, or terms that were designed to convey things like luck/fate, intent/design, and chaos/accident doesn't do our modern understanding justice. You are projecting facets of your personality unto your external environment, it's okay, we all do it, but it is not, factually speaking, accurate. What do you think: is it possible for us to actually provide a completely objective description of the universe or are we doomed to always see it subjectively, or at least partially subjectively?
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RE: What distinguishes a fantasy book from the bible?
July 30, 2011 at 5:24 pm
Silly theists, always jumping to "goddidit" everytime they don't know something. What's wrong with just saying "I don't know"? Seriously?
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence - Carl Sagan
Mankind's intelligence walks hand in hand with it's stupidity.
Being an atheist says nothing about your overall intelligence, it just means you don't believe in god. Atheists can be as bright as any scientist and as stupid as any creationist.
You never really know just how stupid someone is, until you've argued with them.
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RE: What distinguishes a fantasy book from the bible?
July 30, 2011 at 5:42 pm
No, what I'm trying to explain to you, is that subjective explanations of truth are not explanations, they are opinions.
I have to repeat myself here. The cells in your body are in fact "purpose built" to perpetuate versions of themselves. This is life, this is a purpose. That things like life, that exist, can have a cause, does not imply a higher purpose. The statement accident/intent is only an argument for god, it explains nothing about life. If you want to talk god, talk god, if you want to talk life, avoid arguments by proxy.
Science addresses theism in general when it states that personal, miracle working gods do not appear to exist, or if they do, do not work miracles or directly interact with human beings. (IE, don't exist)
As far as our ability to see things objectively. There are obviously barriers to this. If knowledge where thought of as a scale between objective and subjective, science would be the method by which we gradually move the balance point closer to objectivity. The ever increasing array of instrumentation that we can leverage helps in this greatly, in that human beings aren't observing the data anymore, machines are, we are merely recording and assessing it. We may always describe the objective in terms which could be said to be subjective, since we cannot escape who and what we are, but the data itself is increasingly not a reflection of what humans wish it would be, or even what they would imagine it to be. We have had a great deal of improvement in our ability to describe things objectively the past few hundred years, I'm very proud of this achievement, and you should be as well.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: What distinguishes a fantasy book from the bible?
July 30, 2011 at 5:55 pm
Yes you are right. Now let's end this off-topic conversation.
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RE: What distinguishes a fantasy book from the bible?
July 31, 2011 at 12:49 pm
(This post was last modified: July 31, 2011 at 12:51 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
Off topic to what?.... the OP or the pillars of your argument/position? Isn't your argument one side of the debate mentioned in the OP? Are my objections not the other side? Are we not discussing your argument? Why not?
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: What distinguishes a fantasy book from the bible?
July 31, 2011 at 2:21 pm
Damn you Rhythm, why do you insist in crushing their theist wet dreams you evil thing! you are prosecuting them! 
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RE: What distinguishes a fantasy book from the bible?
July 31, 2011 at 3:19 pm
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RE: What distinguishes a fantasy book from the bible?
July 31, 2011 at 4:12 pm
(This post was last modified: July 31, 2011 at 4:12 pm by Emanuel.)
(July 31, 2011 at 12:49 pm)Rhythm Wrote: Off topic to what?.... the OP or the pillars of your argument/position? Isn't your argument one side of the debate mentioned in the OP? Are my objections not the other side? Are we not discussing your argument? Why not? I personally do not see how whether science can give an answer to everything is relevant to whether the Bible is in the same category as a fantasy book, like The Lord of the Rings series or the Chronicles of Narnia. Our discussion was off-topic.
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