An argument against Adam and Eve

[The Grand Nudger]

Just to end this shit, since you seem to be unable to let it fall from your mouth GC, the "serpent" was a fucking dragon, not a talking snake. Makes so much more sense now. As we all know, dragons can speak, and snakes cannot. Why is it that you believe that you can apply your flawed thinking to an omniscient being, and describe him and his attributes? Adam and Eve were not created as fully functional people, because there was no Adam and Eve. You little tirade on free will is hollow in the light of your omniscient deity, and the more complication you add to it by stating what god wanted, and how he couldn't deceive, and how we get to exercise our free will.....the more ridiculous it becomes. Do god a favor and stop making him look like an idiot. You're sure god explained spiritual death to them? You found the minutes? Can we see them?

You gave no such truth. You just let your beliefs fall out of your mouth without critically analyzing them. The shit you spout off is insulting to the human concept of god, with your narrow little garden gnome lording over a kingdom of two that he really, really, really, just wanted to love him. And along comes a fucking dragon.

[fr0d0]

---

Just to end this shit, since you seem to be unable to let it fall from your mouth GC, the "serpent" was a fucking dragon, not a talking snake. Makes so much more sense now. As we all know, dragons can speak, and snakes cannot. Why is it that you believe that you can apply your flawed thinking to an omniscient being, and describe him and his attributes? Adam and Eve were not created as fully functional people, because there was no Adam and Eve. You little tirade on free will is hollow in the light of your omniscient deity, and the more complication you add to it by stating what god wanted, and how he couldn't deceive, and how we get to exercise our free will.....the more ridiculous it becomes. Do god a favor and stop making him look like an idiot. You're sure god explained spiritual death to them? You found the minutes? Can we see them?

You gave no such truth. You just let your beliefs fall out of your mouth without critically analyzing them. The shit you spout off is insulting to the human concept of god, with your narrow little garden gnome lording over a kingdom of two that he really, really, really, just wanted to love him. And along comes a fucking dragon.

---

Translation: I'm sorry... I was wrong and you were right. I apologise.

[Cinjin]

However God could not receive the love He desired from them if He did not give them the freedom to choose between Him and the evil Lucifer brought into existance. Hence the choice, the tree was placed there so they cold exercise their right to choose, if God had not put the tree in the garden then their freewill would have been a deception by God and God could not deceive them, it's not in His nature.

Rhythm's right GC. The more you complicate the story the stupider and more unjust your god becomes. According to your words, Lucifer is more of a scapegoat and god is a stuck up snob who couldn't accept the word NO from two of his own creations.

The biggest hurdle to overcome in that whole stupid story is the idea that god loved them so much that he condemned them and all of mankind to eternal torture. Lucifer is not the one casting souls into hell ... your god is doing that.

You see, you will never be able to sell us the idea that god is love when he condemned an entire species to eternal damnation for making use of the "free-will" that he supposedly gave them. That is not love and sure as hell isn't Just.

Example for the blind and stupid:
A rich man offers you a beautiful big house free of charge. He than tells you that you can have this gift free of charge and all you have to do is be his friend and hang out with him for awhile. He than tells you that if you should choose not to take the house and be his friend, he is going to proceed to burn you with a blow torch every single day for the rest of your life. He tells you, he'd really rather not do that, but that it's your choice and if you don't choose the house, the result is going to be brutally painful.

But hey, it's your choice. You're the one who chose the blow torch.

THAT is the free-will that your hideous god offers the human race.

Hard to believe that anyone in their right mind could think that your god is loving and Just god. How brainwashed are you people?

[Minimalist]

Yes, really G-C.

And we have the evidence:

First off the serpant was not a snake, snakes crawl around on their bellies and the serpant was condemned to this condition by God, this means that the serpant had a different means of getting around before God made it to crawl around on it's belly, I hope this puts an end to this snake deal.

Not only do you make stupid statements....you won't STOP!

[Godscreated]

@ Rhythm and Cinjin, I 'm not sure what you think is so complicated about the story of Adam and Eve, unless you both are a bit on the slow side and I do not think that's the case. How long was Adam and Eve in the garden before the fall, I do not know either because it's never stated, could have been many years, could have been a week or two, no one knows nor will we ever. I do know this, what ever amount of time it was God spent time with them in person building a relationship with them. God loved them deeply, so much so that when they did disobey, God did not come looking for them in a revengeful tirade, God called out to Adam and ask him where he was at (all the time being omniscient He knew where they were and what had happened) and when Adam responded that he was hiding because he was naked, God asked him who told you that your naked, all the time God knew what had happened, yet God asked His child as a careing parent would do. God gave Adam a chance to explain his action and all Adam could do was blame Eve, the knowledge of good and evil had already taken hold of them. This is a story of love as a parent loves a child. There was no dragon in the garden, scripture calls it a serpent, if it were a dragon I believe scripture would have said as much. I'm sure you will find this difficult also, for what ever reason but it's not.

[DeistPaladin]

Is there a way to tell what's meant to be just a story in the bible and what's meant to be real?

That's easy. The stuff that's proven impossible or absurd is just a metaphor. The stuff that isn't is meant to be real. DUH!

Naturally, the second list has gotten shorter over the years.

[Faith No More]

... I'm sure you will find this difficult also, for what ever reason but it's not.

What's difficult to understand is that anyone can still believe this story to be literal. Do you believe that evolution is a lie, or do you try to reconcile it with a literal interpretation of this story?

[The Grand Nudger]

Hmn lets see, a "serpent" that can move around without crawling on it's belly (it hasn't yet been cursed by god)...Now what do we call walking/flying "serpents", oh, that's right, dragons.

Nahash (Hebrew) [from nahash to whisper, hiss, prognosticate, practice divination] Serpent; a constellation -- the serpent or dragon in the northern quarter of the heavens (We call this Draco)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nahash

I'll even suggest to you where they may have gotten such an idea in the first place (not that they need an origin for a dragon story, find me a culture without dragons):

http://www.bible-history.com/archaeology...arduk.html
perhaps even
http://www.northernway.org/hgoddess.html
(I find it very amusing to view the narrative in this light, of a Goddess cult luring away men from god, but hey, in the end I don't have a say in what this narrative actually means)

"And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him" Rev 12:9

Even if you don't belong to a tradition that believes the serpent of Genesis is the devil he is still referred to as nahash, and dragon, in the same breath. In fact there are many different words one can find in the bible that mean serpent, dragon, monster, sea creature...and a whole host of other things, all at the same time. Nahash may actually be used as an adjective in some of these cases, and not a noun as the text seems to imply, rendering it's meaning to "hissing thing". We are again left with a walking, talking, sentient creature, that apparently has a habit of hissing (or at least whispering). Scripture does call it a serpent outright however, and in this case they clearly meant it as a noun. A walking, talking, sapient...serpent. A dragon. Just because your dragons have wings, and knights fight them out of their caves for hordes of treasure, doesn't mean everyone sees (or in this case saw) dragons in such a way. But hey, wtf do I know right buddy?

(What the hell is the deal here anyway, you can believe in everything that the text says, except when it says dragon? Is that where it becomes too fanciful for you? Well we all draw the line somewhere don't we?)

[Cinjin]

This is a story of love as a parent loves a child.

Nope, can't have it both ways. I would not kick my child out of my house for what is essentially a simple lie. Your god loved himself, and he has proven that throughout your silly bible. You simply choose not to see it.

Your god BURNS PEOPLE who don't love him. How do you not see this?!? Your god loves himself far more than he could EVER love you. Sheep.

[The Grand Nudger]

On another note, consider the various meanings of words like nahash, and its relative tannin. Once you let go of your bland European retelling of the myth, there are these great scenes, like in Exodus:

A battle royale between two brothers one (Moses) with his earth dragon, the other (Aaron) with a sea serpent, and the pharoah's magicians and their dragons.

Pass me the popcorn, seriously.