Evil Atheists

[Epimethean]

The bible loves racism-and attendant murder:

From Exodus:

So Moses said, "This is what the LORD says: 'About midnight I will go throughout Egypt. Every firstborn son in Egypt will die, from the firstborn son of Pharaoh, who sits on the throne, to the firstborn son of the slave girl, who is at her hand mill, and all the firstborn of the cattle as well. There will be loud wailing throughout Egypt-worse than there has ever been or ever will be again. But among the Israelites not a dog will bark at any man or animal.' Then you will know that the LORD makes a distinction between Egypt and Israel."

This is just the icing on the cake, though I am certain the bibblers will come a running to say, "But the NT supersedes the OT, so we cannot be blamed for that, because jeebus took it away from our history."

The fact that xtians love to cite the OT when it suits them makes them proud owners of the whole text.

[ElDinero]

Quickest way to get them on that is to ask if they believe the ten commandments should be followed. I haven't met a Christian yet who wouldn't defend those to the hilt.

[Carnavon]

If there is a "Law Giver" that set the standard and there is a day of judgement where those that transgressed the law is punished with eternal damnation, it becomes much more important than our little chats about morality and how we arrive at it.

Since you have yet to prove the existance of this hypothetical lawgiver it is rather a moot point.

An argument was raised that "I am not so bad". Most people would say they are kind of nice if you asked them. But answer the simple little questions:
Have you ever taken anything which does not belong to you? If we are honest, we will all say, yes we have. That makes us.....thieves.
Have you ever lied about something? Again the answer is yes. That would make us ......liars.
Have you ever hated somebody without a cause? Most of us will answer yes (racists/sexists etc). That, according to the Bible makes us....murderers.

How the fuck do you arrive at this conclusion?!?!?!?

Now if you have these few things on your rap sheet, it is unlikely that an earthly judge will look kindly on you, how much more a holy God?
That is the basis on which we know that all are guilty.
But the good news is, that Jesus took all our sins (transgression of the law) on Him and paid the price.

So if we are all still sinners and liable to go to hell then JC's "sacrifice" was rather a waste of time wasn't it.

Not really a sacrifice though, afterall he knew that as the "son of god" he was going to heaven to sit on Yo-Yos right hand after his death.
Soooo where was the sacrifice?

[/quote]
God's existence can not be proven, although strong evidence exists, just as the contrary position cannot. That is possibly why they call it faith?
Conclusion murderers Read again-"according to the Bible"
Jesus' deathThe point is that we are all deserving of eternal damnation, but Jesus took your sins upon himself and you are given the righteousness of Jesus. Basically, it means that your punishment has now been accepted by Jesus, putting you right with God. You can now stand before God with all your sins removed. We still have a sinful nature, but through the spirit of God, we now have victory over sin and we are no longer "slaves" to sin and can look forward to the day when we go to be with Jesus. Jesus' death was not so much physical death only (many martyrs do that) but seperation from God the Father.
I am sorry to say that if you were to investigate Christianity, there are very few places where you will still find it. Possibly the best place will be where they are persecuted and killed for their faith. Much of what is presented as Christianity is pampering to people's needs instead of the Gospel. The concern for people and their souls have been lost.
You possibly know about Nicky Cruz and "The Cross and the Switchblade" although it may be before your time. Dave Wilkerson speaks about our concern for people's souls. Watch/listen to his plea on youtube"A call to anguish" if you would. That is what it is about. Not "winning" empty arguments about evolution or morality. It is about human souls and their place before God.

[The Grand Nudger]

Evolution is fact, natural selection is theory (one of the best supported theories we have actually). Evolution does not have anything to do with abiogenesis. A hoax is a hoax, and how do we know it's a hoax? Oh yeah, that's right, outed by other scientists, who spend a significant chunk of their time (some do nothing else) criticizing each others ideas. Were this the only find supporting natural selection we'd be in trouble, unfortunately for you it isn't even a drop in the bucket. How we slipped porn and racism into a rant against science I have no idea, but kudos anyway. No one does christianity a greater disservice than those who would make themselves (and other believers by association) look like complete idiots arguing against a demonstrable fact.

Evolution is change, it's that simple. When we take a look at the fossil record we find that life, on this planet, has gone through some serious reworking in the last few billion years. These fossils are separated by time (and don't even start on your dating bullshit because it's garbage), and geography. Genetic sequencing sealed the deal. There's really nothing to argue against here. Life evolves. The only area for disagreement is the mechanism. Natural selection is a well supported theory for this mechanism (as are a few others).

Now, if you have an axe to grind, it's really easy. Buy a shovel, and start digging a hole. Stop discrediting your own faith by fighting windmills.
http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/stor...reNum=2807
There you go. $9.97 (plus s/h) and you have every tool you need to support your position. Don't be cheap, do it for God.

(all of "god's conclusions" are merely projections of your own, your demi-god narrative is just a narrative)

[ElDinero]

This is a bit unfair now. Carnavon must love getting fucked in the ass because at the moment me, Rhythm, Epimethean and Zen Badger have him over a barrel.

[KichigaiNeko]

This is a bit unfair now. Carnavon must love getting fucked in the ass because at the moment me, Rhythm, Epimethean and Zen Badger have him over a barrel.

You do!!

Just saying to the Zen Badger...Carnavon sounds like a good little slave trying be arse fucked by the "boss" to PROVE how "worthy" he is....

Sad really.

[Carnavon]

Evolution is fact, natural selection is theory (one of the best supported theories we have actually). Evolution does not have anything to do with abiogenesis. A hoax is a hoax, and how do we know it's a hoax? Oh yeah, that's right, outed by other scientists, who spend a significant chunk of their time (some do nothing else) criticizing each others ideas. Were this the only find supporting natural selection we'd be in trouble, unfortunately for you it isn't even a drop in the bucket. How we slipped porn and racism into a rant against science I have no idea, but kudos anyway. No one does christianity a greater disservice than those who would make themselves (and other believers by association) look like complete idiots arguing against a demonstrable fact.

Evolution is change, it's that simple. When we take a look at the fossil record we find that life, on this planet, has gone through some serious reworking in the last few billion years. These fossils are separated by time (and don't even start on your dating bullshit because it's garbage), and geography. Genetic sequencing sealed the deal. There's really nothing to argue against here. Life evolves. The only area for disagreement is the mechanism. Natural selection is a well supported theory for this mechanism (as are a few others).

Now, if you have an axe to grind, it's really easy. Buy a shovel, and start digging a hole. Stop discrediting your own faith by fighting windmills.
http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/stor...reNum=2807
There you go. $9.97 (plus s/h) and you have every tool you need to support your position. Don't be cheap, do it for God.

(all of "god's conclusions" are merely projections of your own, your demi-god narrative is just a narrative)

Hi, I have no axe to grind I just explain my convictions, as you do. Micro evolution is true, within species and within certain parameters and apparently vaccilates. Life evolves? Yes? Please refer me to intermediate species (not drawings and fakes). And how did life start from inanimate material? You will know that non-directional changes is implied in evolution. Then how come the eye, lungs etc develope? Why?
Maybe an answer to some of the following will also be interesting:
How and why did Single-celled animals evolve (very complex creatures)?
How did it all start -the very beginning?
Natural selection results in changes to different species. If the first single cell organism were reproduceds somehow (please explain to me why the possibility for reproduction need to have been present), why would it change to something else? Why would the need exist? I would like some light on the subject as you seem quite convinced of your position.

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This is a bit unfair now. Carnavon must love getting fucked in the ass because at the moment me, Rhythm, Epimethean and Zen Badger have him over a barrel.

Your language tells a story, as does your assessment of the facts of the discussion.

[ElDinero]

Your language tells a story too. Several actually.

'The Little Apologist That Couldn't'
'Harry Potter and the Cognitive Dissonance'
'Lord Of The Whinge'
'P.S I'm Not Listening To You'
'How To Tell Lies and Misrepresent People'

I notice you've avoided my previous post.

---

As for intermediate species, as it happens I saw an interesting documentary a couple of nights ago and thought of some of the stillbirth pricks on this forum. I don't know if you'll be able to see it unless you're in the UK, but if you can, go to about the 6 minute mark:

http://www.channel4.com/programmes/insid...od#3234339

[The Grand Nudger]

Firstly, biological evolution and abiogenesis are not the same thing. I don't have the answers there, and neither do you. The difference between us is that I can be honest about it. 2/3rds of your questions directly relate to this single point. If that's the gap you want to cram god into good luck to you. I would have picked something a little farther out of our reach. You run the risk of having your position absolutely and undeniably discredited in your own lifetime (something that peddlers in bullshit realized was bad practice long ago).

If micro evolution is true to you, then there should be no problem with evolution at all. There is no dividing line between the two. Differences add up over a long time-frame (and we're talking billions of years here). That being said, nothing "changes" into something else. You are still a bony fish. You just have a longer list of modifiers added. The rest of your post seems to be about "needs", which isn't the current understanding of evolution at all. Evolution by natural selection isn't a sentient process that responds to creatures needs. It's not about need, changes occur. Let's not attempt to bootleg your particular brand of idiocy into a place it doesn't belong. It's difficult to reproduce a perfect copy ad infinitum, and on top of that we're being bombarded by radiation constantly (not to mention some of the more novel theories). Sometimes those differences provide one creature with an advantage over another (other times they are deleterious). The effects of which are what we see in the fossil record. Life is a process of elimination, this rock is a killing machine, and the things we see alive and all around us are a tiny fraction of what has been. The "path" evolution took in our own species is no better. We are the only survivors (and that's a tentative position itself). So much for humans being the pinnacle of directed evolution. How are the other hominids doing? Apparently not so hot either (most are endangered http://www.earthsendangered.com/list.asp).

RE Eyes:
http://atheistforums.org/thread-8516-page-2.html
(posts #16 and #18 gg Chuck)

RE Lungs:
http://icb.oxfordjournals.org/content/28/2/739.abstract
(I'll try to find you the full PDF if you're interested)

RE Sexual Reproduction
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/80624...t=Abstract
http://www.dorak.info/evolution/sreprod.html (a breif synopsis on the authors website in the event that you can't access pubmed)

I would be perverse to look at the ever increasing piles of data and conclude otherwise. Evolution isn't "my position" it is the position of demonstrable fact. The "how's" are the point where one must decide where they put their chips. Mine are in with natural selection, broadly, and a whole host of other mechanisms specifically. I'm going to repeat this because it's important. You can disagree on the "how" all you like, that's healthy. If your faith hinges on a demonstrable fact being completely and wholly incorrect, your faith is showing severe fatigue. I don't blame the authors for this, they had no idea what was going on around them. Short of divine intervention they could not have given an accurate description of the origins of the universe or life itself(and that's pretty damning when you realize that they did not possess such knowledge even though they claimed they did in fact receive just such an intervention). You, on the other hand, with a modern education and access to the internet, have no such excuse. You could educate yourself, you choose not to. You prefer to side with magic, and this sort of thinking is childish and ignorant. Get yourself a shovel, dig up a cambrian rabbit, and bring that to the table. Then you'll be taken seriously.

[Carnavon]

Your language tells a story too. Several actually.

'The Little Apologist That Couldn't'
'Harry Potter and the Cognitive Dissonance'
'Lord Of The Whinge'
'P.S I'm Not Listening To You'
'How To Tell Lies and Misrepresent People'

I notice you've avoided my previous post.

---

As for intermediate species, as it happens I saw an interesting documentary a couple of nights ago and thought of some of the stillbirth pricks on this forum. I don't know if you'll be able to see it unless you're in the UK, but if you can, go to about the 6 minute mark:

http://www.channel4.com/programmes/insid...od#3234339

Please explain 'How To Tell Lies and Misrepresent People" for one.