A really hard question on Satan and deception.

[Captain Scarlet]

It is amazing how atheist describe Christians. We are the fools who believe in a make believe God and they don't have a clue that the god of this world Satan, the fallen one, has blinded their eyes from the truth. If God did not exist there would be no existence at all. The periodic table of the elements is not my daddy. And I am not a monkey’s uncle. All God ever does is ask me to trust him. I do and I will face my death when the time comes with high anticipation. I will never regret my decision to follow him. Not here to save anyone, just shine some light into the darkness. Godschild, together we can chase 10,000.

The brilliant Persian poet, mathematician and astronomer Omar Khayyam put the response to this abject nonsense much more eloquently than I could ever do, in the 12 century. For centuries before and after Muslims, Christians and other maniacal faiths try to convert the 'lost', despite the total lack of support for any of it. Do you think we or other atheists of the past haven't heard it all before? Do you think you have the secrets of the universe that we don't? Do you know the mind of god and are the only ones able to interpret scripture? Do you believe that scripture was inspired by a god? Do you think you are going to paradise? Over to Omar:

Look not above, there is no answer there;
Pray not, for no one listens to your prayer;
Near is as near to God as any Far,
And Here is just the same deceit as There.

And do you think that unto such as you;
A maggot-minded, starved, fanatic crew:
God gave the secret, and denied it me?--
Well, well, what matters it! Believe that, too.

"Did God set grapes a-growing, do you think,
And at the same time make it sin to drink?
Give thanks to Him who foreordained it thus--
Surely He loves to hear the glasses clink!"

[Minimalist]

He knew Adam and Eve would fail,

Which makes your 'god' a stunning prick, G-C. No wonder you worship his sorry ass.

[Godscreated]

I'll always disapprove when scripture is so badly misinterpreted, I know you know that's what happened with these verses. Surely you are not going to lower yourself to defend something you knows wrong.

You won't find an ally in me. Like you said, I can't defend something I KNOW is wrong.

Not looking for you to be an ally, just honest.

---

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@ IATIA, I'm going to tell you even though I know you will just disagree, the Tree of Life was placed in the garden because God wanted to let us know that such a thing existed. He knew Adam and Eve would fail, with the tree known about it should have been a sign to the Israelites that there would be such a thing as eternal life. Actually we do not know whether they ate from the tree or not, scripture does not state so one way or the other, if they did it would have made no difference, when they eat from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil they disobeyed God and that sin brought death into the world. God told them that if they ate of that tree they would surely die and many years later they surely died. "Surely die" never meant immediate death then nor does it have that absolute definition today. God knowing what would take place gave all hope of eternal life before Christ came to be our savior. Scripture makes it quite clear that death came into the world because of sin, and specifically that Adam was responsible.

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A little overly verbose for 'I do not know', but that is an acceptable answer for now.

2) The only reference to death is god's threat. If death does not yet exist, how are Adam and Eve supposed to be able to comprehend this particular abstract concept?

In the first place it wasn't a threat, God told them what would happen and it did. Second I would suppose that God explained to them what death was, being omniscient I do not think this would have been such a hard thing to do. You should read he NT also, if you want to find all the answers to this subject, I know you want though because you are not interested in seeing the truth of scripture. By the way I did not say I did not know.

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I disapprove of your terrible misinterpretations of scripture GC, turning god into a petty tyrant. So what? Technically speaking they didn't "bring death into the world" btw, they were cursed (I know I know it doesn't sound as nice, and we like to keep god nice, rgr).

Then please explain how death technically came into the world, you spout a lot of junk but never give any relative explanation.

[5thHorseman]

'It is amazing how atheist describe Christians. We are the fools who believe in a make believe God and they don't have a clue that the god of this world Satan, the fallen one, has blinded their eyes from the truth. If God did not exist there would be no existence at all. The periodic table of the elements is not my daddy. And I am not a monkey’s uncle. All God ever does is ask me to trust him. I do and I will face my death when the time comes with high anticipation. I will never regret my decision to follow him. Not here to save anyone, just shine some light into the darkness. Godschild, together we can chase 10,000.'

Ignorance in abundance.

Re-read your post and notice your lack of knowledge of basic biology, physics and general decency.

[IATIA]

In the first place it wasn't a threat, God told them what would happen and it did. Second I would suppose that God explained to them what death was, being omniscient I do not think this would have been such a hard thing to do.

Assumptions. I say they were destined to die if they did not eat of the tree of life. As it was, they ate of the tree of knowledge at which point god banished them before they could eat of the tree of life. Your god knew this would happen, ergo the threat of death.

threat noun \ˈthret\

1. an expression of intention to inflict evil, injury, or damage
   
2. one that threatens
   
3. an indication of something impending
   

threat [θrɛt] n

1. a declaration of the intention to inflict harm, pain, or misery
   
2. an indication of imminent harm, danger, or pain
   
3. a person or thing that is regarded as dangerous or likely to inflict pain or misery
   

I disapprove of your terrible misinterpretations of scripture GC, turning god into a petty tyrant. So what? Technically speaking they didn't "bring death into the world" btw, they were cursed (I know I know it doesn't sound as nice, and we like to keep god nice, rgr).

Then please explain how death technically came into the world, you spout a lot of junk but never give any relative explanation.

Death (due to old age) is basically the accumulated break down of the overall DNA of the organism. It happens to everything. I am sure someone will come along with a more technical description for you.

[Mister Agenda]

@ IATIA, I'm going to tell you even though I know you will just disagree, the Tree of Life was placed in the garden because God wanted to let us know that such a thing existed.

The Tree of Life existed so we would know it exists? Words fail me.

He knew Adam and Eve would fail, with the tree known about it should have been a sign to the Israelites that there would be such a thing as eternal life.

Here's the thing: if you set the initial conditions, and know the outcome of your actions, you are responsible for whatever happens subsequently. Adam and Eve were exactly as God made them, and if he knew he didn't make them strong enough to resist the temptation to which he was deliberately going to expose them, he set them up to fail. You can't have an omnipotent entity that sees the future and creates everything involved in a scenario and blame the puppets acting out their parts.

Actually we do not know whether they ate from the tree or not, scripture does not state so one way or the other, if they did it would have made no difference, when they eat from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil they disobeyed God and that sin brought death into the world.

If it would have made no difference, why was God concerned that they might eat from it after they knew of good and evil?

God told them that if they ate of that tree they would surely die and many years later they surely died. "Surely die" never meant immediate death then nor does it have that absolute definition today.

True. But 'on that day' means 'on that day'. It still has that absolute definition today. They didn't die the day they ate the fruit. You have to make something up that isn't written to make that contradiction go away.

God knowing what would take place gave all hope of eternal life before Christ came to be our savior. Scripture makes it quite clear that death came into the world because of sin, and specifically that Adam was responsible.

Their creator knowing what would take place means that Adam and Eve did not have free will and aren't responsible for their actions. Fortunately, the authors of Genesis were telling a story, not a treatise on logic.

[Godscreated]

---

@ IATIA, I'm going to tell you even though I know you will just disagree, the Tree of Life was placed in the garden because God wanted to let us know that such a thing existed. He knew Adam and Eve would fail, with the tree known about it should have been a sign to the Israelites that there would be such a thing as eternal life. Actually we do not know whether they ate from the tree or not, scripture does not state so one way or the other, if they did it would have made no difference, when they eat from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil they disobeyed God and that sin brought death into the world. God told them that if they ate of that tree they would surely die and many years later they surely died. "Surely die" never meant immediate death then nor does it have that absolute definition today. God knowing what would take place gave all hope of eternal life before Christ came to be our savior. Scripture makes it quite clear that death came into the world because of sin, and specifically that Adam was responsible.

---

A little overly verbose for 'I do not know', but that is an acceptable answer for now.

2) The only reference to death is god's threat. If death does not yet exist, how are Adam and Eve supposed to be able to comprehend this particular abstract concept?

Here's a thought to ponder, when a smoker goes to a doctor and the doctor says that if you continue to smoke it will kill you, is that a threat from the doctor or is it concern for the well being of his patient?

[KichigaiNeko]

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@ IATIA, I'm going to tell you even though I know you will just disagree, the Tree of Life was placed in the garden because God wanted to let us know that such a thing existed. He knew Adam and Eve would fail, with the tree known about it should have been a sign to the Israelites that there would be such a thing as eternal life. Actually we do not know whether they ate from the tree or not, scripture does not state so one way or the other, if they did it would have made no difference, when they eat from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil they disobeyed God and that sin brought death into the world. God told them that if they ate of that tree they would surely die and many years later they surely died. "Surely die" never meant immediate death then nor does it have that absolute definition today. God knowing what would take place gave all hope of eternal life before Christ came to be our savior. Scripture makes it quite clear that death came into the world because of sin, and specifically that Adam was responsible.

---

A little overly verbose for 'I do not know', but that is an acceptable answer for now.

2) The only reference to death is god's threat. If death does not yet exist, how are Adam and Eve supposed to be able to comprehend this particular abstract concept?

Here's a thought to ponder, when a smoker goes to a doctor and the doctor says that if you continue to smoke it will kill you, is that a threat from the doctor or is it concern for the well being of his patient?

It is a threat from the doctor.

[Captain Scarlet]

Here's a thought to ponder, when a smoker goes to a doctor and the doctor says that if you continue to smoke it will kill you, is that a threat from the doctor or is it concern for the well being of his patient?

Analogy fail. Try to take a view on the asymmetry of the relationship between a being who is all powerful and a bein who isn't. It's more like:

If the head of the mafia, who is very much more powerful than you and could back up any claim, came to you and said "do what I tell you or I will see to it that you die before your time". Is that a threat or concern for the well being of one of the 'family'.

[Minimalist]

Here's a thought to ponder, when a smoker goes to a doctor and the doctor says that if you continue to smoke it will kill you, is that a threat from the doctor or is it concern for the well being of his patient?

Tell you what, G-C. Find me a doctor who says "if you continue to smoke it will kill you....and also kill your children and grand children and great grandchildren, etc., etc. and even when you are dead you will continue to choke and cough and spit blood and agonize with every breath until THE END OF FUCKING TIME!" and you will have a somewhat better analogy of what your so-called "god" did.