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Proper term for someone who actively believes there is no god?
#1
Proper term for someone who actively believes there is no god?
The question was just posed to me on facebook.
The dictionary defines an "atheist" as someone who believes there is no god.
However, I fervently argue that an "atheism" is simply a disbelief.
My reasons for the discrepancy with an objective source (the dictionary) are as follows:

_____

Although "atheism" is simply a disbelief (not a belief) the "atheist", the person who "holds" that disbelief, automatically has to defer to the antithesis of "god exists" (i.e. "god does NOT exist").
The dictionary is simply supplying us with the logical outcome of atheism.

However, it is important to note that while atheists technically have a belief concerning god, it is not something they choose. It is the only other option if they wish to reject a belief in god (since "agnostic", strictly speaking, is not an option when defining belief).

Most atheists are quite open to hearing evidence for god; we have not rejected the possibility that god exists. We simply, at the present time, do not have enough evidence to commit us to belief. We do not hold a single thing worthy of belief unless there is demonstrable, falsifiable evidence for it; this goes for everything from gravity to ghosts.
There are some atheists, however, who DO think that god is actually disprove by science and god is a scientific impossibility. Atheists such as myself prefer to disassociate ourselves from such atheists, calling them "strong atheists", and ourselves "weak atheists".
This is usually not too much of an issue, so "atheist" usually does just fine.

Because of our disbelief, however, we will operate as if there is no god; we will refer to god as a fictional deity, in the same way many people refer to ghosts as delusions or optical illusions.

That is the long answer. The short answer to your question is "An atheist".
_____

Can anyone spot a flaw in this answer, or have a better one?
I am conversing with an intellectually curious theist who is actually stopping to listen and hear what I have to say; so let's give them a good answer. Smile

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#2
RE: Proper term for someone who actively believes there is no god?
(October 23, 2011 at 8:31 pm)Lehrling Wrote: Although "atheism" is simply a disbelief (not a belief) the "atheist", the person who "holds" that disbelief, automatically has to defer to the antithesis of "god exists" (i.e. "god does NOT exist").
The dictionary is simply supplying us with the logical outcome of atheism.

"... automatically has to defer" is wrong. You are implicitly asserting that one must hold a position on whether there is a god. I see no reason why this should be the case. Someone who knew nothing of religion would not even understand the question if you asked them whether god existed. Knowing about a hypothesis (in this case, god) does not necessarily imply that one must agree or disagree with it.

(October 23, 2011 at 8:31 pm)Lehrling Wrote: Atheists such as myself prefer to disassociate ourselves from such atheists, calling them "strong atheists", and ourselves "weak atheists".

I take mild offence to this statement. I wouldn't class myself as a strong atheist, but I don't agree with this either: "Most atheists are quite open to hearing evidence for god; we have not rejected the possibility that god exists". I also think this part of your post is preachy and snooty.



The "proper term for someone who actively believes there is no god" is gnostic atheist. The proper term for someone who does not believe in a god is agnostic atheist. "Atheist" on its own is non specific as to whether one believes actively in anything at all.
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#3
RE: Proper term for someone who actively believes there is no god?
http://atheistforums.org/thread-3817.html
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#4
RE: Proper term for someone who actively believes there is no god?
(October 23, 2011 at 8:54 pm)edk141 Wrote:
(October 23, 2011 at 8:31 pm)Lehrling Wrote: Although "atheism" is simply a disbelief (not a belief) the "atheist", the person who "holds" that disbelief, automatically has to defer to the antithesis of "god exists" (i.e. "god does NOT exist").
The dictionary is simply supplying us with the logical outcome of atheism.

"... automatically has to defer" is wrong. You are implicitly asserting that one must hold a position on whether there is a god. I see no reason why this should be the case. Someone who knew nothing of religion would not even understand the question if you asked them whether god existed. Knowing about a hypothesis (in this case, god) does not necessarily imply that one must agree or disagree with it.

I am simply trying to harmonize what atheism is with what the dictionary says an atheist is.
Atheism is not a belief. But the dictionary clearly says the atheist (not "anti-theist", or "gnostic atheist", but "atheist") believes there is no god.
If you have a better way for us to agree with the objective authority on the english language while still maintaining the proper definition of atheism, then I am happy to hear it.

(October 23, 2011 at 8:54 pm)edk141 Wrote:
(October 23, 2011 at 8:31 pm)Lehrling Wrote: Atheists such as myself prefer to disassociate ourselves from such atheists, calling them "strong atheists", and ourselves "weak atheists".

I take mild offence to this statement. I wouldn't class myself as a strong atheist, but I don't agree with this either: "Most atheists are quite open to hearing evidence for god; we have not rejected the possibility that god exists". I also think this part of your post is preachy and snooty.

Is it inaccurate?
Are all atheists automatically ruling out the possibility of god?

(October 23, 2011 at 8:54 pm)edk141 Wrote: The "proper term for someone who actively believes there is no god" is gnostic atheist. The proper term for someone who does not believe in a god is agnostic atheist. "Atheist" on its own is non specific as to whether one believes actively in anything at all.

I agree with the last part.
But to be "gnostic" is to actually "know" something.
It has to do with knowledge, not belief.
A gnostic theist is someone who both knows AND believes that god exists.
An agnostic atheist is someone who does not know if god exists or not, but determines that being an atheist is the most logical choice.
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#5
RE: Proper term for someone who actively believes there is no god?
I am confused as to why it is deemed necessary to have labels that define our beliefs to the tiniest facet. Would it not be reasonable to say that if one wants to know someone's beliefs that one should get to know the person beyond superfluous classifications?
Even if the open windows of science at first make us shiver after the cozy indoor warmth of traditional humanizing myths, in the end the fresh air brings vigor, and the great spaces have a splendor of their own - Bertrand Russell
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#6
RE: Proper term for someone who actively believes there is no god?
(October 23, 2011 at 9:53 pm)Faith No More Wrote: I am confused as to why it is deemed necessary to have labels that define our beliefs to the tiniest facet. Would it not be reasonable to say that if one wants to know someone's beliefs that one should get to know the person beyond superfluous classifications?

I am with you there, at least as far as labels in the political realm and such goes.

The thing is, atheism is such a simple concept it's not funny.
Yet people keep trying to over-complicate it, conform it so it sounds religious, and the like.

All I need is a way to reconcile "atheism" with "atheist".
Atheism is not a belief. Yet the dictionary defines "atheist" as someone who BELIEVES there is no god.
I just need a logical pathway between the two so I can answer the question my theist friend posed to me without looking like an idiot.
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#7
RE: Proper term for someone who actively believes there is no god?
Which dictionary?

And when did a dictionary become the end all definition for the myriad nuances of an entire philosophy or position?
Slave to the Patriarchy no more
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#8
RE: Proper term for someone who actively believes there is no god?
(October 23, 2011 at 10:53 pm)Moros Synackaon Wrote: Which dictionary?

And when did a dictionary become the end all definition for the myriad nuances of an entire philosophy or position?

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/atheist

I would at least like to know everyone's response to this query.
We know that atheism is not a belief.
So what would we call someone who actively believes there is no god?
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#9
RE: Proper term for someone who actively believes there is no god?
Quote:So what would we call someone who actively believes there is no god?

Your choice of the following:

1. Anti-theist
2. Strong Atheist
3. Gnostic Atheist
Atheist Forums Hall of Shame:
"The trinity can be equated to having your cake and eating it too."
...      -Lucent, trying to defend the Trinity concept
"(Yahweh's) actions are good because (Yahweh) is the ultimate standard of goodness. That’s not begging the question"
...       -Statler Waldorf, Christian apologist
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#10
RE: Proper term for someone who actively believes there is no god?
(October 24, 2011 at 12:35 am)DeistPaladin Wrote:
Quote:So what would we call someone who actively believes there is no god?

Your choice of the following:

1. Anti-theist
2. Strong Atheist
3. Gnostic Atheist

I ended up choosing #2, then presenting #1 as a commonly-used term as well.

I pointedly ignored #3, as it doesn't really say what I am trying to say.
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