Is it better to lie to people in church?

[tackattack]

I would have said, "Oh he's an atheist, and is just helping me set up, wanna help us set up?" I can't say I've never lied, but I'm against them, especially the knowing/intentional ones. I don't think it necessarily has to end in confrontation. I think that anticipated confrontation, helps to put everyone's defences up from the get-go and encourage confrontation. I personally, don't have time for drama like this and prefer to shoot straight.

[KichigaiNeko]

Trouble is that it would seem that the xtians at THIS particular church are VERY sensitive and so delight in being lied to so that their world is not challenged.

[The Magic Pudding]

RE: Is it better to lie to people in church?

Ye I think it probably is better to lie to people in church.
I mean, we know they're more gullible so your chances of succeeding in your lie must be better than average. I don't know where else to recommend, a weight loss clinic perhaps?

[Strongbad]

Thou shalt not lie. Lying is a "sin". So is murder, rape, incest, adultry, homosexuality, etc, etc. But, it's OK! As long as you have the correct thoughts and maybe mumble a few prayers, ALL of your "sins" will be forgiven. It doesn't matter how many times a christian lies - he will still get to go to heaven.

[AthiestAtheist]

Trouble is that it would seem that the xtians at THIS particular church are VERY sensitive and so delight in being lied to so that their world is not challenged.

Unfortunately, you are probably right. How sad.

[Godscreated]

Since no christian has weighed in on this yet I would like to say this, did he really lie or was he trying to protect you from an embarrassing situation, at least what he conceived as embarrassing for you. Even in a christian worldview not everything is black and white. Let's look at it from your position, if your grandfather bumped into you and several of your friends, and he was wearing some clothes that in your opinion were terrible, what would you do? Tell him that his clothing looked terrible knowing your friends would laugh at him or would you cut that possibility off and say hey you look great and save him from a possible embarrassment. Sometimes a perceived lie is not a lie but love in disguise.

So Christians would rather have me lie to them. Got it.

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did he really lie or was he trying to protect you from an embarrassing situation

Yes. He lied. And not professing belief in childish bullshit is not an embarrassment for us.

I could see where you would be embarrassed by it, though.

Exactly, GC.

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I know the definition of a lie and I understand some think that the letter of the law is all there is. I know that to protect someone with a statement that is not exactly the truth is walking a fine line. In this situation I believe there was no lie, only a grandfather who was protecting a loved one. Now do not misunderstand, I'm not saying that love is a valid reason to cover wrongs, in this situation AtheistAtheist was not doing anything that was wrong, nor was the grandfather in the example I gave. Jesus told the Jewish priest that they live by the letter of the law with no compassion and that they were in danger of judgement. By the statements made most that have responded see that compassion is important. In this situation I believe AtheistAtheist should be thankful for the way grandfather handled this situation, he could have said he's an atheist see if you can talk some sense into him, putting AtheistAtheist in a difficult situation and most uncomfortable at the least. Tell grandfather thank you, be grateful for his love instead of criticizing him.

So you understand what a lie is and you still say because "someone was looking out for a loved one" it is not a lie. Do you not see the contradiction here. It may not be wrong in this case, but it is still a lie. Circumstances do not change the definitions of words. Also in this case, he wasn't protecting me, he was protecting her/himself.

"He could have said he's an atheist see if you can talk some sense into him, putting AtheistAtheist in a difficult situation and most uncomfortable at the least." That is a very bad comparison. It is a total false dilemma. Saying " he's an atheist" is fine, because it's the truth, and I would have no reason to give a f*** what she thinks, because I would probably never see her again. From that to "he's an atheist see if you can talk some sense into him" is going not "true", but just plain mean. It also would have caused a situation, so that is quite a ridiculous suggestion for a response.

Sorry I tried to shed a little light on this and I wish your grandfather the best, it's to bad you'll never know the truth of that situation because you have such a hard heart.

[ElDinero]

God probably hardened his heart like he did to Pharaoh, what do you think?

[Faith No More]

I wonder what GC would be saying if it the grandpa had lied to atheists that his Christian grandson was really an atheist? Still about love?

[AthiestAtheist]

Sorry I tried to shed a little light on this and I wish your grandfather the best, it's to bad you'll never know the truth of that situation because you have such a hard heart.

Excuse me?

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I wonder what GC would be saying if it the grandpa had lied to atheists that his Christian grandson was really an atheist? Still about love?

Hmm, yeah. I'd like to know that too.

[tackattack]

Trouble is that it would seem that the xtians at THIS particular church are VERY sensitive and so delight in being lied to so that their world is not challenged.

Yes, they are a sensitive and fragile bunch in some places I've seen. One lesson I've learned though, whether I'm talking polemics or apologetics or to my wife and kids; I can only be responsible for what I say and do, not how you hear it, judge it, feel about it or what you do with it.