Our server costs ~$56 per month to run. Please consider donating or becoming a Patron to help keep the site running. Help us gain new members by following us on Twitter and liking our page on Facebook!
Current time: March 29, 2024, 6:54 am

Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
How Great Thou Aren't
#31
RE: How Great Thou Aren't
(December 9, 2011 at 6:31 pm)gralbrit79 Wrote: I just stumbled across this discussion and found it very interesting. I am a Christian, and I would not say that God sits by doing nothing for the suffering of people all over the world, but rather we do. Maybe if we (by “we” I mean Christians and myself included and for that matter people who simply care for others) would care for people the way Jesus did maybe we would not see so many of these pictures. It would seem too many people are filled with indifference to the world around them. Maybe God is doing something to help those people, he is filling this world with logical and caring people who can give aid to those who are hurting, hungry, marginalized and oppressed. In first John Jesus says if you say you love God and see a brother or sister in need and do nothing to help them you cannot say you love God. I would say the problem lies not with God but rather his people.

The fact that human beings as a whole should be doing far more for each other is a given. I don't think anyone here would debate you on this, but that is not the argument at hand. All the helpful people in the world can't cure face tumors and a legion of horrific diseases. This isn't just about starvation. The argument here is (or at least has become) the power of prayer or rather, the non existence of the power of prayer.

The overwhelming evidence shows that your god is either not listening or doesn't give a shit, but of course you people continue to claim that he's answering YOUR prayers when he helped you find your car keys in the morning.
[Image: Evolution.png]

Reply
#32
RE: How Great Thou Aren't
Quote:The argument here is (or at least has become) the power of prayer or rather, the non existence of the power of prayer.

Actually, prayer is quite "powerful." It can cause whole groups of humans to stop doing anything useful because they think praying helps.


Quote:The overwhelming evidence shows that your god is either not listening or doesn't give a shit, but of course you people continue to claim that he's answering YOUR prayers when he helped you find your car keys in the morning.

So very true!
Reply
#33
RE: How Great Thou Aren't
(December 9, 2011 at 6:31 pm)gralbrit79 Wrote: I just stumbled across this discussion and found it very interesting. I am a Christian, and I would not say that God sits by doing nothing for the suffering of people all over the world, but rather we do. Maybe if we (by “we” I mean Christians and myself included and for that matter people who simply care for others) would care for people the way Jesus did maybe we would not see so many of these pictures. It would seem too many people are filled with indifference to the world around them. Maybe God is doing something to help those people, he is filling this world with logical and caring people who can give aid to those who are hurting, hungry, marginalized and oppressed. In first John Jesus says if you say you love God and see a brother or sister in need and do nothing to help them you cannot say you love God. I would say the problem lies not with God but rather his people.

It's down to us to help these people then? No argument from me there. So while we are expending human energy to try and correct these issues, what is it exactly that God is doing?
Reply
#34
RE: How Great Thou Aren't
Wait, so we're assuming god is helping them by putting people on this Earth to help them survive? Why isn't the fact that most of them do not survive being called into question? Why are some Christians just oblivious to the fact that hurting people and then giving them someone to help (sometimes) is fucked up? Sure, god is helping them (rolls eyes). Should we just post the dead, starved people pictures now? How are they being helped and don't give me that heaven shit, because maybe they just wanted to, I don't know, eat?!

FYI, Christian missionaries often help people where they go. That is all good. However, they also bring Christianity with them, which has totally fucked up Africa, in my opinion. As if they weren't having enough problems between the tribal religions and the Muslims, someone had to add another hate god to the mix. *sigh* There is a little something my ex mother-in-law used to say to my stepson when he would try to help and goof something up -- "Stop helping!" Send food or something. Keep your fucking bibles at home.
Reply
#35
RE: How Great Thou Aren't
Quote:I would say the problem lies not with God but rather his people.

So how did your "perfect" god create such imperfection?

Reply
#36
RE: How Great Thou Aren't
[Image: rman5430l.jpg]
Reply
#37
RE: How Great Thou Aren't
My ex-pastor posted this yesterday on Facebook:

[Image: 380557_258350140884986_236798266373507_6...3485_n.jpg]

And I agree to the extent that yes, it is us humans who most definitely have to deal with this problem, and if I understood everyone right by glancing through the comments, I think that we all agree. Especially since the problems won't go away by asking your imaginary friend..

But this makes me wonder again about the programming skills of this particular god. If I remember my bullshit correctly, we're all made in its image, so shouldn't every single one of us desire to eradicate injustice of any kind? Why don't we? And for the love of Odin, don't say free will, because if we indeed would be carbon copies of god, it means that we reflect his nature and god itself would be able of such atrocities.

Why on Earth should the god not be responsible for its creation, I wonder? It seems rather cruel to me if it actually made this whole mess, but then took a look at it and decided that the world was to screwed up and it couldn't be bothered to clean up after itself afterwards. Instead it supposedly gave us ambiguous messages at best through outdated writings; if you wish just hard enough or pray enough times, you just might get rid of your misery. Just might. Well, psychosomatic healing and wishful thinking does not help if you're hungry or make that tumor the size of Greenland on your face shrink and disappear.

Does anyone else find it odd that it always seems to be the same kind of people targeted when it comes to misery? For instance: Do you live in Africa? Check. Are you a girl? Check. Do you have dark skin? Check. Well, in that case, congratulations, you're fucked! God seems like the worst racist bully there ever was. Sure, everyone on this planet will face misery in one way or another, but why does it seems to be that always a certain group of people get the worst, all the time?

No, poverty and famine is something we all should work to get rid of by stopping to be so greedy and selfish, it is definitely a thing humanity have brought upon itself. But when it comes to the injustice of having e.g. a strange medical condition, all I can say that random mutations unfortunately happens and all we can do is try and provide the people with decent care.

I take great comfort in the thought that the world isn't fair. Because if it was, we would deserve all the bad things that happen to us. And if there's a thought that someone deserves a facial tumor, that they had it coming or if you believe enough it'll go away, than that would indeed be the most loathsome being in the whole universe.

/rant

When I was young, there was a god with infinite power protecting me. Is there anyone else who felt that way? And was sure about it? but the first time I fell in love, I was thrown down - or maybe I broke free - and I bade farewell to God and became human. Now I don't have God's protection, and I walk on the ground without wings, but I don't regret this hardship. I want to live as a person. -Arina Tanemura

Reply
#38
RE: How Great Thou Aren't
Quote:Why on Earth should the god not be responsible for its creation, I wonder?

Cue some jesus freak whining about "free will" in 5....4....3....2....1.....


You'd think an all-knowing 'god' would have known the result of that, wouldn't you?
Reply
#39
RE: How Great Thou Aren't
I do believe God does intervene, but I do not agree with the person who says we prayed for God to help me sell my house and it sold or find my keys and they did. The question would be where does he draw the line? If he innerves and fixes everything and protects everyone there would be no choice what so ever. I believe God created the world and set it in motion and in that he gave people the freedom to choose. The world has a natural order to the way things work. God created things that create things. Plants, animals people all reproduce themselves. There is war, famine, disease. Some of these come about because of hate and injustice, some from the natural order. God did not create the world and put it on a string to dictate everything that would happen. People are born and they die, it is part of life (I do not mean for that to come across as if it does not matter, because it does matter). So again at what point does he intervene and where does he stop? With natural disasters? With disease? With poor choices? Where does he step in? If he steps in at every opportunity at what point do we (meaning everyone and everything) simply become puppets on a string? God could have made everything perfect, removed all the evil from the world but love would not have existed. It would have been nonexistent. Love must be a choice, if we are simply made to love someone it is not truly love. I do not think he is indifferent to the suffering, but I believe as I said earlier he expects his people to be there for the hurting. To show compassion and love not just to those who are hungry but to those who are dying. There is a lot of evil and indifference done in the name of gods, including Christianity, but I do not believe that is representative of every follower of Jesus. That is not what Jesus taught his followers.
Reply
#40
RE: How Great Thou Aren't
That's nice. There are/have been people who thought their god wanted them to throw virgins into volcanoes so I guess you are a step or two above them.

You are free to "believe" whatever you want.

Belief does not carry a great deal of weight around here though.
Reply



Possibly Related Threads...
Thread Author Replies Views Last Post
Exclamation Why Atheism is Incoherent & You Aren't as Smart as You Think You Are Seax 60 4685 March 19, 2021 at 9:43 am
Last Post: Mister Agenda
  "Thou shalt have no other gods before Me" ignoramus 121 20526 March 5, 2021 at 6:42 am
Last Post: arewethereyet
  To All Those Theists Who Aren't In It For The Swag Edwardo Piet 17 2827 June 2, 2018 at 8:53 am
Last Post: Edwardo Piet
  God is great WinterHold 32 5049 August 2, 2017 at 7:38 am
Last Post: Harry Nevis
  Liberalism's Great Challenge? Minimalist 20 3259 September 10, 2016 at 2:39 pm
Last Post: Jehanne
  Hitchens '07: God is not Great Czechlervitz30 32 4622 August 2, 2016 at 4:19 pm
Last Post: The Valkyrie
Question Heaven seems awful 2 me-"Theist laughs at loudly & with great cruelty" fruyian 141 16141 May 18, 2016 at 4:31 am
Last Post: robvalue
Question "Thou shall not kill" commandment is hypocritical? pocaracas 92 17541 August 26, 2015 at 10:43 am
Last Post: Mr Greene
  Some great news for a change! Simon Moon 21 6274 January 7, 2015 at 9:51 pm
Last Post: Minimalist
  you can read how great the Pope is piotrniz 11 2593 September 7, 2014 at 4:37 pm
Last Post: Cyberman



Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)