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How Great Thou Aren't
#71
RE: How Great Thou Aren't
(December 16, 2011 at 10:14 pm)Cthulhu Dreaming Wrote:
(December 16, 2011 at 6:01 pm)Godschild Wrote: Yes we take Bibles into every area, just as you would preach there is no God to everyone you can.

That's the difference between us and you, G-C. Secular organizations don't hand out copies of "The God Delusion" to those they're assisting. There's no preaching, no sermon, no hard sell.

Here's something for you to consider. A local faith-based soup kitchen for the homeless puts a price on charity. No sermon == no soup. No secular organization that I'm aware of makes charity conditional on hearing their message - no doubt in large part because the message is "help the needy", and actions speak louder than words, or sermons.

That is not what a soup kitchen should be about, I'm against forced sermons, Christ never required it and neither should christians.
To hand out "The God Delusion" to those who are looking for hope would be counter productive, so I do not blame you for not handing it out. I do not know this for a fact but I would think nonbelievers would find handing out a book that doesn't give hope a waste of money, on the contrary christians see the Bible as a book of infinite hope.

God loves those who believe and those who do not and the same goes for me, you have no choice in this matter. That puts the matter of total free will to rest.
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#72
RE: How Great Thou Aren't
GC, go back to the large quote you have for me and fix it. There is no fucking way I am fixing that long ass thing. Otherwise, I will just put hide tags on it, but if you fix it, I will actually answer it.
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#73
RE: How Great Thou Aren't
(December 17, 2011 at 1:05 am)Godschild Wrote: That is not what a soup kitchen should be about, I'm against forced sermons, Christ never required it and neither should christians.
To hand out "The God Delusion" to those who are looking for hope would be counter productive, so I do not blame you for not handing it out. I do not know this for a fact but I would think nonbelievers would find handing out a book that doesn't give hope a waste of money, on the contrary christians see the Bible as a book of infinite hope.

I agree wholeheartedly that soup kitchens shouldn't force sermons on the homeless.

Regarding not handing out pro-atheist literature - it's not a matter of whether it doesn't give hope. Clearly we disagree on this, and that's OK. I find the atheist position to be self-empowering which to my way of thinking is hopeful. But again, that's a difference of opinion.

I don't find handing out bibles to be helpful - they neither feed, nor clothe, nor shelter those in need. I would guess that the majority of those who are targets of missionary work have their own form of spirituality that they already find comfort in. Whether I think that is productive in my opinion is irrelevant - proselytizing is frequently viewed as offensive to those of other beliefs, and conversion of tribal and other "primitive" cultures has a record of sometimes disastrous results even with the best of intentions.
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#74
RE: How Great Thou Aren't
(December 17, 2011 at 12:58 am)Cthulhu Dreaming Wrote: @Godschild

Serious question for you - would you consider your church's charity work to be a success if you left the bibles and preaching at home and focused on the non-theological work?

No, the reason that I say this is that is part of our work. I would never condone forcing Bibles or preaching on those who do not want to be bothered. However for those who would like to have a Bible or hear someone witness to them then we would be prepared. Some people might want to know why we are giving of our time and money and with the Bible at hand we could show them how Christ served others and even gave us a mandate to serve those in need without expecting anything in return. To leave our Bibles and witness behind would be like a doctor operating on someone without bringing all his desire to do his best in the operating room.
(December 17, 2011 at 2:12 am)Shell B Wrote: GC, go back to the large quote you have for me and fix it. There is no fucking way I am fixing that long ass thing. Otherwise, I will just put hide tags on it, but if you fix it, I will actually answer it.

I got that mess all out of wack some how and the more I tried to fix it the worse it got, finally I got it so it would at least post. If you do not want to mess with it I would not blame you. As you have noted before I'm not real good with this sort of thing, sorry. If it were a piece of wood I could make it right, sadly though it's not and it is what it is.
God loves those who believe and those who do not and the same goes for me, you have no choice in this matter. That puts the matter of total free will to rest.
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#75
RE: How Great Thou Aren't
Well Cthulu, you can always burn a bible when it gets cold. It'll be helpful for at least a few minutes. Maybe sterilize a small pot of water over the flames. You could tear out it's pages and stuff them between your shirt and coat for added insulation. If it's leatherbound you could eat the backer. A nice heavy bible could be thrown at scavengers trying to steal your shit.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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#76
RE: How Great Thou Aren't
(December 17, 2011 at 1:05 am)Godschild Wrote: I do not know this for a fact but I would think nonbelievers would find handing out a book that doesn't give hope a waste of money, on the contrary christians see the Bible as a book of infinite hope.

Telling people in need that they will win the lottery tomorrow would certainly give them hope, but chances are they will not and their hope will be in vain. No matter how badly you personally believe they will win, you were still providing false hope to those in need of real material support.

I have similar feelings about the hope christians find in their book and therefore do not consider sharing that hope with others a humane thing to do. Give soup, not sermons.

Handing out "The God Delusion" might not be the best of choices, there are better books, but at least it would tickle peoples minds and entice them to think for themselves rather than presenting them with horror stories and unsubstantiated claims.
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#77
RE: How Great Thou Aren't
(December 17, 2011 at 1:05 am)Godschild Wrote:
(December 16, 2011 at 10:14 pm)Cthulhu Dreaming Wrote: Here's something for you to consider. A local faith-based soup kitchen for the homeless puts a price on charity. No sermon == no soup. No secular organization that I'm aware of makes charity conditional on hearing their message - no doubt in large part because the message is "help the needy", and actions speak louder than words, or sermons.

That is not what a soup kitchen should be about, I'm against forced sermons, Christ never required it and neither should christians.

Classic useless rebuttal: "I'M against what the great majority of my christian brother's actually do." ---- as if that justifies your silly beliefs or validates your point. EVERY christian on this site is guilty of this lame cop-out. The argument is most always about the general actions and ideas of Christianity as a religion, and when we get any of you cornered in your own stupid argument, you often come out with, "...well ... I don't PERSONALLY agree with that particular facet of our religion." It's a horseshit excuse.

Quote:To hand out "The God Delusion" to those who are looking for hope would be counter productive, so I do not blame you for not handing it out. I do not know this for a fact but I would think nonbelievers would find handing out a book that doesn't give hope a waste of money, on the contrary christians see the Bible as a book of infinite hope.

First of all, The God Delusion may or may not give hope. I know several ex-christians who found it very inspirational and very full of hope - so that first sentence is your own biased judgement call. Secondly, the God Delusion is not a Bible and most atheists I know rarely reference it in any kind of debate ... and I mean VERY rarely. Lastly, Christians do see the bible as a book of infinite hope ... but stating the obvious does not bolster your point one damn iota and does not counter Cthulu's point that atheists' help comes without strings attached. You cannot say the same about Christianity regardless of your own personal and inconsequential feelings on the matter.
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