(August 2, 2015 at 12:12 pm)Lek Wrote: Threads like this strengthen my conclusion that I'll never be an atheist.

Posts like this strengthen my conclusion that you don't understand what atheism actually is.

(August 2, 2015 at 12:12 pm)Lek Wrote: Threads like this strengthen my conclusion that I'll never be an atheist.

Rejecting the possibly of change is pretty closed minded.

(August 2, 2015 at 12:12 pm)Lek Wrote: Threads like this strengthen my conclusion that I'll never be an atheist.

I guess I'll add to the replies as well.

Yeah, because the couple of us, represent the entire atheist population. And, the way some of us act towards religion on this internet forum, doesn’t represent our actual personality. There’s a medium here, that allows us to get out our disgust with religion, than we normally would, out in a world filled with religious people, that can’t seem to grasp the idea of how idiotic their religion is.

(August 2, 2015 at 1:04 pm)Pyrrho Wrote: Two things.  First, Friday night to Sunday morning is barely more than one day, not three days.  Christians seem mathematically challenged.

Second, there is little reason to believe (even if one takes the Bible seriously) that Jesus descended into hell.  Here are a couple of articles that deal with this:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harrowing_of_Hell

http://www.compellingtruth.org/did-Jesus...-hell.html

The long and the short of it is that Christians disagree with each other on this point.

If Jesus wasn't tormented, tortured, bothered, harassed, inconvenienced, flayed, molested, beaten, raped, choked, strangled, maligned, or annoyed in Hell, I am further perplexed as to just what in hell (so to speak) was the big deal about His sacrifice.

It's ludicrous that Satan and Jesus lounged poolside, (even if the pool was filled with molten iron and throngs of the screaming damned) sipping Long Island Iced Teas until Jesus could go back to Golgotha and move the rock out of the way.

I'd wager to fulfill His earning of 144,000 souls from Satan, He had to suffer, and suffer mightily indeed.  And the compressed time scale (noted correctly at much less than the math impaired 3 day claim) does not bolster any of the implications also noted above that some feel Jesus was on vacation or something. No, that compressed time scale demands violent and disturbing depravities and vile, agonizing infliction of the basest kind upon Jesus frail and sensitive body.

I might even go further and suggest that only saving 144,000 souls, despite the heinous horrors and vicious wounds meted out, implies Christ wasn't all that successful in wrangling much of a deal from Satan.


Maybe we need another, better Savior ?   


One that knows shit about the art of making a deal.

(August 2, 2015 at 12:12 pm)Lek Wrote: Threads like this strengthen my conclusion that I'll never be an atheist.

In that case I feel sad for you. You will Never be free of the thought of that celestial north Korea.

(August 2, 2015 at 1:55 pm)vorlon13 Wrote:

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(August 2, 2015 at 1:04 pm)Pyrrho Wrote: Two things.  First, Friday night to Sunday morning is barely more than one day, not three days.  Christians seem mathematically challenged.

Second, there is little reason to believe (even if one takes the Bible seriously) that Jesus descended into hell.  Here are a couple of articles that deal with this:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harrowing_of_Hell

http://www.compellingtruth.org/did-Jesus...-hell.html

The long and the short of it is that Christians disagree with each other on this point.

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If Jesus wasn't tormented, tortured, bothered, harassed, inconvenienced, flayed, molested, beaten, raped, choked, strangled, maligned, or annoyed in Hell, I am further perplexed as to just what in hell (so to speak) was the big deal about His sacrifice.

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It's ludicrous that Satan and Jesus lounged poolside, (even if the pool was filled with molten iron and throngs of the screaming damned) sipping Long Island Iced Teas until Jesus could go back to Golgotha and move the rock out of the way.

I'd wager to fulfill His earning of 144,000 souls from Satan, He had to suffer, and suffer mightily indeed.  And the compressed time scale (noted correctly at much less than the math impaired 3 day claim) does not bolster any of the implications also noted above that some feel Jesus was on vacation or something. No, that compressed time scale demands violent and disturbing depravities and vile, agonizing infliction of the basest kind upon Jesus frail and sensitive body.

I might even go further and suggest that only saving 144,000 souls, despite the heinous horrors and vicious wounds meted out, implies Christ wasn't all that successful in wrangling much of a deal from Satan.


Maybe we need another, better Savior ?   


One that knows shit about the art of making a deal.

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There is no way you are going to be able to make the story make any sense.  Why would god demand a sacrifice at all, instead of just forgiving people instead?  Why should anyone suffer, if the guilty are not going to suffer?  It just makes no damn sense at all.  So no matter what claim is made about whether Jesus went to hell or not, it isn't going to make any sense.

For more, see:

Jesus sacrifice and why it didn't count

(August 2, 2015 at 12:12 pm)Lek Wrote: Threads like this strengthen my conclusion that I'll never be an atheist.

I know of no one here who cares if you become an atheist or not. Since you already had the conclusion, it belongs to you.

We don't play.
We laugh and we joke
We drink and we smoke
But we do not play

We are at home and if you don't like what we say then go elsewhere.

We see models of both the birth and the death of Jesus in earlier religions because they are both based on astronomical/astrological phenomenon that can be seen around the world.

During the first century, the world was under the Julian calendar., which placed the winter solstice on December 25. That’s why we see so many messiah gods around the world born on that date.  During the three days of the winter solstice (December 22-25 under the current Gregorian calendar) the sun appears to stand still (dies) at 23 degrees/27 minutes from the south pole (under the Earth). After three days the sun appears to rise as the revolution of the Earth turns the Northern hemisphere back towards the sun. At this time the constellation Virgo (not the sign Virgo) is at its brightest and the sun appears to be born of a virgin.

I found a picture of the constellation Virgo and put it in juxtaposition to a picture of the Egyptian nativity scene. The similarity is so striking that it’s clear where the story came from.

(August 2, 2015 at 12:12 pm)Lek Wrote: Threads like this strengthen my conclusion that I'll never be an atheist.

It's posts like this that strengthen my conviction that you're too deluded to ever accept reason.

(August 2, 2015 at 2:55 pm)Pyrrho Wrote:

(August 2, 2015 at 1:55 pm)vorlon13 Wrote:

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If Jesus wasn't tormented, tortured, bothered, harassed, inconvenienced, flayed, molested, beaten, raped, choked, strangled, maligned, or annoyed in Hell, I am further perplexed as to just what in hell (so to speak) was the big deal about His sacrifice.

---

It's ludicrous that Satan and Jesus lounged poolside, (even if the pool was filled with molten iron and throngs of the screaming damned) sipping Long Island Iced Teas until Jesus could go back to Golgotha and move the rock out of the way.

I'd wager to fulfill His earning of 144,000 souls from Satan, He had to suffer, and suffer mightily indeed.  And the compressed time scale (noted correctly at much less than the math impaired 3 day claim) does not bolster any of the implications also noted above that some feel Jesus was on vacation or something. No, that compressed time scale demands violent and disturbing depravities and vile, agonizing infliction of the basest kind upon Jesus frail and sensitive body.

I might even go further and suggest that only saving 144,000 souls, despite the heinous horrors and vicious wounds meted out, implies Christ wasn't all that successful in wrangling much of a deal from Satan.


Maybe we need another, better Savior ?   


One that knows shit about the art of making a deal.

---

There is no way you are going to be able to make the story make any sense.  Why would god demand a sacrifice at all, instead of just forgiving people instead?  Why should anyone suffer, if the guilty are not going to suffer?  It just makes no damn sense at all.  So no matter what claim is made about whether Jesus went to hell or not, it isn't going to make any sense.

For more, see:

Jesus sacrifice and why it didn't count

I think I have made a valiant effort in making the story make sense. 

Satan HAD to be appeased (compensated) in the transaction that purchased Salvation for the 144,000.   Jesus is clearly the only one tagged to pay too, never heard a christer claim anyone else's sacrifice would do. Clearly, boiling ordinary sinners in molten iron doesn't buy Salvation for anyone. Just try to imagine for a moment what Jesus would have had to willingly endure to appease Satan for the sake of the 144,000 !!!   And to do it in just a matter of several hours.

If anything, I have understated the magnitude of His (temporary) torment.   Satan would not be bought off cheap.