(August 2, 2015 at 10:16 am)AFTT47 Wrote: Well, lets see.

I'm God and I want Adam and Eve to obey me and live happily in the garden of Eden. I don't want them to eat the apple from the tree of life but I'll put the tree in the garden where they can reach it. I'll tell them not to eat of its fruit but since I didn't give them the ability to know right from wrong, they won't know it's wrong to disobey me. I'll also put the talking snake (which I created myself and know to be duplicitous) in with them. Then when they listen to the snake and eat of the fruit (which I knew was going to happen since I'm omniscient) I'll blame them instead of my own worthless ass.

Paul says that Adam was not deceived. He knew that what he was doing was wrong.

(August 7, 2015 at 5:50 am)alpha male Wrote:

(August 2, 2015 at 10:01 am)dyresand Wrote: day 1 - Creates the heavens and the earth.

day 2 -  he couldn't see a god damned thing creates light and dark also created the moon. (didn't create a source of light till day 4, if god was so smart he would have created the sun)

day 3 - creates vegetation (again no light source and no insects and bees to pollinate said vegetation)

day 4 - finally creates the god damned sun 

If you want to leave some of god's fuck ups please do this will be a educational thing for theists on the website.

Why can't an omnipotent god have light without the sun, or vegetation without insects?

Actually that third one is a pretty good fine-tuning argument for ID.

Yeah no fine tuning has no good argument. 

TLDR version 

There would be more life in the universe if it was fine tuned.

Why would an omnipotent God make it look like a work experience underling made everything the most inefficient and stupid way?

Gimme the keys for just 5 minutes and I'll sort this shit out. Come on now, it's just embarressing at the moment.

(August 6, 2015 at 5:18 pm)dyresand Wrote:

(August 6, 2015 at 4:34 pm)Drich Wrote: Wait a minute... You do understand light exists with out the sun correct? Otherwise what do you do after sun set? Do you not have lights in the village you live in? Now think long and hard on this.. If Man a creation of God can produce light without the sun, shouldn't the creator of Man be able to do the same but on a much larger scale if He wanted to?

Yes light exist without the sun only because there is other others but problem comes down to physics. Given god is working in a specific region of space the light from distant stars 
isn't that great. The speed of darkness and the speed of light is constant. So god for shits and giggles created light he would still be in the dark making shit.

You missed the point again sport. Light is possible, with out a start to produce it. If you are not out side look up right now, and find the light source for the room your in. Is it a star? So again it is possible for man to create visible light with out the use of a star. then what in your close mind makes you think the one who just created the entire light spectrum by simply calling it into existence, is some how lost when it comes to producing visible light with out the use of a star when we can do so by turning on a simple light switch?

(August 6, 2015 at 8:34 pm)Brakeman Wrote:

(August 6, 2015 at 9:17 am)Drich Wrote:
Seriously?

you didn't read the posted article did you? Light is independent of the sun. Light goes well beyond the visual spectrum. (meaning no sun needed to produce or/source light) I thought you guys were 'thinkers' were all 'science up.' Seems to me you are no better than those who mocked what they full don't comprehend, you just assume you are in a position of knowledge rather than click on a link to confirm it or deny it.

the 'rubber band' is well intact.

Ha HA! I get it. you think that the whole electromagnetic spectrum is light, right? Ha Ha!
That is a chart of Frequency. X-ray and Gamma rays are not light, they don't include photons..

Light has to have a source to start from and a direction to go to. So tell us what frequency this "unsourced" light would have? What period did it have?

Did I say gamma or x rays? I said light spectrum, and visiable light. which means their is light detectable by the eye and light that is not. Ultra violet light as well as infrared light that are apart of the light spectrum that are not considered visible light.

those three types of light consume 1/3 of the total know frequencies of electromagnetic spectrum, of that 1/3 of photonic light visible light frequencies make up only a small fraction. So when I said light goes well beyond the visible light spectrum, it is well founded.

Now to you foolish assumption of 'unsourced light.'

If you took the time to read my orginal post you quoted I said light is possible without the sun. I did not say light God used was unsourced.

I have made several posts telling you all where that source was.

As far as the frequencies, they would be the same as they are now.

(August 6, 2015 at 9:07 pm)Nestor Wrote: A few thoughts:

The separate creation myths of Genesis 1 and 2 are probably reflective of two different traditions that were incorporated into Jewish theology, each evolving to possess their own significance. For example, one may have been viewed as the creation of mankind in general, while the other specifically related the original progenitors of the Hebrews. Philo of Alexandria, for example, considered Genesis 1 to represent the creation of the Platonic Ideas whereas Genesis 2 related their manifestation into a multiplicity of material objects. He also ascribed to an allegorical interpretation of the seven days by reading Pythagorean number theory into them.

That's not to say that there haven't always been literalists who mistake the symbolism of the myth for (un)factual description, but that is a deeply impoverished reading of the text that misses the philosophical or theological ideas concealed beneath the surface, in much the same way that underlying Plato's Timaeus or Ovid's Metamorphoses are a wealth of possible metaphysical or moral considerations to explore.

This sounds like a educated guess from someone not familiar with how OT Jew told or relayed their stories. Genesis one and two follows their oral tradition in story lay out. The frame work of genesis 1 and 2 if one considers the source and traditions of the people it came from does not support the 'guess' of whatever book you read.

Rev 21
23 The city does not need the sun or the moon to shine on it, for the glory of God gives it light, and the Lamb is its lamp. 24 The nations will walk by its light, and the kings of the earth will bring their splendor into it. 25 On no day will its gates ever be shut, for there will be no night there.

That's pretty cool - in the first chapter of the Bible there's light without sun, and in the second to last chapter it comes back to that.

Why would anyone think that an omnipotent creator would need a sun in order to have light?

(August 7, 2015 at 5:50 am)alpha male Wrote:

(August 2, 2015 at 10:01 am)dyresand Wrote: day 1 - Creates the heavens and the earth.

day 2 -  he couldn't see a god damned thing creates light and dark also created the moon. (didn't create a source of light till day 4, if god was so smart he would have created the sun)

day 3 - creates vegetation (again no light source and no insects and bees to pollinate said vegetation)

day 4 - finally creates the god damned sun 

If you want to leave some of god's fuck ups please do this will be a educational thing for theists on the website.

Why can't an omnipotent god have light without the sun, or vegetation without insects?

Actually that third one is a pretty good fine-tuning argument for ID.

I seriously thought the vegetation without insects was too foolish to answer. because what does it matter if the vegetation went without insects for ONE day?

Honestly I think, with the stuff Sandy says he is really a Christian Poe-ing as a 'smart Atheist.'

Damn, nebula produce light and they are not stars. People need to stop believing that everything is religious mumbo-jumbo. There is no God creature making the universe. Everything is a result of natural processes where simple things become more complex things through the process of organic and inorganic evolution.