(September 21, 2015 at 5:16 pm)ChadWooters Wrote: I'm not surprised that the Lord would prepare the pagan world for His Advent by foreshadowing His arrival.

I had to give you a kudos. That transcended stupidity and stuck its flag in a glorious realm of hilarity. Good show.

(September 21, 2015 at 5:03 pm)Randy Carson Wrote:

(September 21, 2015 at 4:44 pm)Homeless Nutter Wrote: That's really neat, Randy. And yet, with all that copypasta - you're still no closer to proving that Jesus existed, that he was a god, or even that there are any gods at all. You could just as well be arguing against the theory, that Jon Snow is secretly a Thargarian, for all the material difference it makes in the real world.

Oh, well - whatever keeps you occupied...

It's a process.

One by one, I pull the rugs out from under the silly arguments that people make against Christianity.

In the end, the only position still standing is the one the Church has been holding for 2,000 years.

Well this latest attempt has failed. Agreed Osiris isn't the best example but other posters her have shown a few. Dionysus is another, born of immaculate conception between Zeus and Semele. He was later cast to the Titans by hera and revived after he died. Hell he even returned Semele to life. So sorry man but it seems it was not a unheard of narrative in the Hellenistic world.

(September 21, 2015 at 5:21 pm)Iroscato Wrote:

(September 21, 2015 at 5:16 pm)ChadWooters Wrote: I'm not surprised that the Lord would prepare the pagan world for His Advent by foreshadowing His arrival.

I had to give you a kudos. That transcended stupidity and stuck its flag in  a glorious realm of hilarity. Good show.

It's like showing prayer "works" by assigning the outcome to "yes", "no" or "not yet".

Cover every base? You betcha! 

Previous prototype? Preparing the pagan world! 

No previous prototype? Jesus was totally unique!

I'm guessing there is a logical fallacy available for such tortures of logic, but this one escapes me.

(September 21, 2015 at 5:21 pm)Lemonvariable72 Wrote:

(September 21, 2015 at 5:03 pm)Randy Carson Wrote: It's a process.

One by one, I pull the rugs out from under the silly arguments that people make against Christianity.

In the end, the only position still standing is the one the Church has been holding for 2,000 years.

Well this latest attempt has failed. Agreed Osiris isn't the best example but other posters her have shown a few. Dionysus is another, born of immaculate conception between Zeus and Semele. He was later cast to the Titans by hera and revived after he died. Hell he even returned Semele to life. So sorry man but it seems it was not a unheard of narrative in the Hellenistic world.

And elsewhere, I have posted quotes from Dr. Yamauchi, a recognized expert in the field of middle-eastern pagan religions who has spent his entire academic career examining these so-called "dying and rising gods".

Not only is there every reason to believe that the pagans actually took their beliefs from Christianity in the second century and later, but there are no legitimate pre-Christian candidates for the role of a prototype dying and rising God.

Jesus is unique.

Hahaha, so, did the pagans of meso-america -also- source their beliefs from christianity?  Be hard to toss a bible all the way across the atlantic before it had been compiled or any christians had made the trip... dontcha think? It's a common religious motif, I don't know why this puts the fear into christians so predictably. We're all human beings, we all tell similar stories.

(September 21, 2015 at 5:28 pm)Rhythm Wrote: Hahaha, so, did the pagans of meso-america -also- source their beliefs from christianity?  Be hard to toss a bible all the way across the a dontcha think?

Hahaha, so, if the pagans of meso-America believed in a dying and rising god like Jesus, how would the Jews of the first century have known of this in order to copy them?

Epic. Fail.

Who says they did?  That's right..nobody.  If the -christians-....not jews...-christians- copied a narrative, either intentionally or unintentionally...as we -very commonly do- it would have been those narratives common to the Med and ANE.

Jews did -and still do- think you christians are full of shit. Realize this. It never caught on with them.

Randy, there’s definitely many gods and religions that predate christianity that have some copycat qualities. Vic gave you one, Min gave you another.

There’s Romulus born centuries before jesus (a dying and rising god). According to Livy, he was born of a virgin, impregnated by Mars. At the end of his life he was at the Campus Martius during a thunderstorm, and loud cracks of thunder struck and he was surrounded by fog, and assumed into heaven. Sounds like Elijah, Moses, Enoch, Jesus, and Mary. Their bodies were taken to heaven. After many had witnessed this, they called him the son of god. Interesting enough the Romans had a trinity as well in Mars, Jupiter, and Quirinus.

From what I’ve noticed, I haven’t seen an exact copycat, like you’re saying Randy, but during the time of the alleged son of god that you worship, there was a shit ton of people doing the same things jesus was as well.

Of course, you have Appolonius of Tyana, who’s story was so similar, but likely just a few decades after jesus. His mother was visited from heaven and told her that she would bare a son that was not going to be mortal, but the son of god. He preached things like, “You should not be concerned with earthly possessions, and you should be more concerned with the eternal afterlife.” He performed similar miracles to jesus: rose the dead, healed the sick, cast out demons, etc. The authorities of Rome arrested him, put him on trial and executed him. He came back from the dead to appear before a follower of his that doubted that he had risen. After his life, his followers wrote about him, just like jesus.

According to Philostratus, there was a heavy amount of eye witness testimony of these things. Which bullshit story is right??? I’m sure it’s yours. It’s always the person making the claim… You may not have a total copycat story, but there are many stories borrowed from previous ones, then they are added to the next bullshit story.

This is all from your boy, Ehrman’s research. Ehrman, also says that he sees no reason to believe that Joseph of Arimathea gave him a proper burial (nor did a burial even take place) or there was an empty tomb, how do you feel about that? Do you agree with him?

Out of all the religious stories, why did yours happen, and why do all the eye witness testimony of Appolonius’s miracles not count? How come jesus’s count in your eyes?

The thing that puzzles me about this, is that christians seem to think that if their stories borrowed it would be some terrible, unacceptable breach.  They could hardly have helped it.  The folks who would have been the first to compile or author these narratives would have been steeped in pagan traditions, stories, and narrative device.....and people write in the manner that they've been taught to write.   That was true then.....and it's still true today. It doesn't mean that when people write autobiographies, for example, the fact that those autobiographies often take a modern western narrative form means that they aren't true. Hell..Randy here is a follower of Cathol.....so he doesn't even need every jot and tittle to be true as told..he's got holy mother church....who, apparently, failed to inform him of this simple clause in his religious education. Must've attended public schools.

(September 21, 2015 at 5:31 pm)Randy Carson Wrote:

(September 21, 2015 at 5:28 pm)Rhythm Wrote: Hahaha, so, did the pagans of meso-america -also- source their beliefs from christianity?  Be hard to toss a bible all the way across the a dontcha think?

Hahaha, so, if the pagans of meso-America believed in a dying and rising god like Jesus, how would the Jews of the first century have known of this in order to copy them?

Epic. Fail.

Hear that rumbling noise? That's the point going supersonic straight over your head.

Dying and rising again is a staple of folk tales and mythologies across the world and down through the annals of history way before the christian version came along and stuck. Different cultures always come up with this shit in parallel. Boredom and ignorance is hella powerful, and spawns these kind of stories quite often. Christianity is nothing special - and it never will be, ultimately. Centuries from now, it will be another footnote in history, practised by a few fringe followers at best. The hourglass grows ever emptier...