Rope? Check!

Enough to hang hizsef? Check!

(September 24, 2015 at 4:30 pm)drfuzzy Wrote: You REALLY think this is news?  You really think we haven't seen these ridiculous inane clips thousands of times?  Seriously?  Stop posting other people's work.  If you want to talk to us, talk to us in your own words.

Please be honest.Thank You

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Genesis 19New International Version (NIV)
Sodom and Gomorrah Destroyed
19 The two angels arrived at Sodom in the evening, and Lot was sitting in the gateway of the city. When he saw them, he got up to meet them and bowed down with his face to the ground. 2 “My lords,” he said, “please turn aside to your servant’s house. You can wash your feet and spend the night and then go on your way early in the morning.”
“No,” they answered, “we will spend the night in the square.”
3 But he insisted so strongly that they did go with him and entered his house.He prepared a meal for them, baking bread without yeast, and they ate.4 Before they had gone to bed, all the men from every part of the city of Sodom—both young and old—surrounded the house. 5 They called to Lot, “Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us so that we can have sex with them.”
6 Lot went outside to meet them and shut the door behind him 7 and said, “No, my friends. Don’t do this wicked thing. 8 Look, I have two daughters who have never slept with a man. Let me bring them out to you, and you can do what you like with them. But don’t do anything to these men, for they have come under the protection of my roof.”
9 “Get out of our way,” they replied. “This fellow came here as a foreigner, and now he wants to play the judge! We’ll treat you worse than them.” They kept bringing pressure on Lot and moved forward to break down the door.
10 But the men inside reached out and pulled Lot back into the house and shut the door. 11 Then they struck the men who were at the door of the house, young and old, with blindness so that they could not find the door.
12 The two men said to Lot, “Do you have anyone else here—sons-in-law, sons or daughters, or anyone else in the city who belongs to you? Get them out of here, 13 because we are going to destroy this place. The outcry to the Lordagainst its people is so great that he has sent us to destroy it.”
14 So Lot went out and spoke to his sons-in-law, who were pledged to marry[a]his daughters. He said, “Hurry and get out of this place, because the Lord is about to destroy the city!” But his sons-in-law thought he was joking.
15 With the coming of dawn, the angels urged Lot, saying, “Hurry! Take your wife and your two daughters who are here, or you will be swept away when the city is punished.”
16 When he hesitated, the men grasped his hand and the hands of his wife and of his two daughters and led them safely out of the city, for the Lord was merciful to them. 17 As soon as they had brought them out, one of them said, “Flee for your lives! Don’t look back, and don’t stop anywhere in the plain! Flee to the mountains or you will be swept away!”
18 But Lot said to them, “No, my lords,[b] please! 19 Your[c] servant has found favor in your[d] eyes, and you[e] have shown great kindness to me in sparing my life. But I can’t flee to the mountains; this disaster will overtake me, and I’ll die. 20 Look, here is a town near enough to run to, and it is small. Let me flee to it—it is very small, isn’t it? Then my life will be spared.”
21 He said to him, “Very well, I will grant this request too; I will not overthrow the town you speak of. 22 But flee there quickly, because I cannot do anything until you reach it.” (That is why the town was called Zoar.[f])
23 By the time Lot reached Zoar, the sun had risen over the land. 24 Then theLord rained down burning sulfur on Sodom and Gomorrah—from the Lord out of the heavens. 25 Thus he overthrew those cities and the entire plain, destroying all those living in the cities—and also the vegetation in the land. 26 But Lot’s wife looked back, and she became a pillar of salt.
27 Early the next morning Abraham got up and returned to the place where he had stood before the Lord. 28 He looked down toward Sodom and Gomorrah, toward all the land of the plain, and he saw dense smoke rising from the land, like smoke from a furnace.
29 So when God destroyed the cities of the plain, he remembered Abraham, and he brought Lot out of the catastrophe that overthrew the cities where Lot had lived.
Lot and His Daughters
30 Lot and his two daughters left Zoar and settled in the mountains, for he was afraid to stay in Zoar. He and his two daughters lived in a cave. 31 One day the older daughter said to the younger, “Our father is old, and there is no man around here to give us children—as is the custom all over the earth. 32 Let’s get our father to drink wine and then sleep with him and preserve our family linethrough our father.”
33 That night they got their father to drink wine, and the older daughter went in and slept with him. He was not aware of it when she lay down or when she got up.
34 The next day the older daughter said to the younger, “Last night I slept with my father. Let’s get him to drink wine again tonight, and you go in and sleep with him so we can preserve our family line through our father.” 35 So they got their father to drink wine that night also, and the younger daughter went in and slept with him. Again he was not aware of it when she lay down or when she got up.
36 So both of Lot’s daughters became pregnant by their father. 37 The older daughter had a son, and she named him Moab[g]; he is the father of the Moabites of today. 38 The younger daughter also had a son, and she named him Ben-Ammi[h]; he is the father of the Ammonites[i] of today.

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(September 24, 2015 at 4:23 pm)Grehoman Ebenezer Wrote:

(September 24, 2015 at 4:20 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: You shouldn't take a day typing if you understood arguments.  You have a discussion. You summarize.

Or Go and read site: {snip}

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My favorite part of each of these evangelicals that regurgitate nonsense is that each of them acts like they are bringing something new to the table. I think it boils down to the misconception that atheists are only non-believers because they haven't heard the arguments.

(September 24, 2015 at 4:41 pm)Faith No More Wrote: My favorite part of each of these evangelicals that regurgitate nonsense is that each of them acts like they are bringing something new to the table.  I think it boils down to the misconception that atheists are only non-believers because they haven't heard the arguments.

Yes, who is this Jesus of which you speaketh? Verily tell us! For we have not heard ye Goode News!

And bring thy best arguments to bare upon us so we may learn from thy Wisdom!

(September 24, 2015 at 3:06 pm)Grehoman Ebenezer Wrote:

(September 24, 2015 at 2:53 pm)Chad32 Wrote: As far as argument from design goes, I've heard that people say the universe must be created because everything is so complex. Except that when somethign is designed intelligently, it's generally as simple and efficient as possible. In fact many inventions are just more simple and efficient versions of things we already use. So why would complexity be an indication of intelligent design?

The teleological argument states that since the universe displays such an amazing design, there must have been a divine Designer. For example, if the Earth were significantly closer or farther away from the sun, it would not be capable of supporting much of the life it currently does. If the elements in our atmosphere were even a few percentage points different, nearly every living thing on earth would die. The odds of a single protein molecule forming by chance is 1 in 10243 (that is a 1 followed by 243 zeros). A single cell is comprised of millions of protein molecules.So you said why would complexity be an indication of an intelligent design,simple,because the more complex something,the more knowledge is required in order to make the,thing/object,for example we human's are complex but yet simple,we don't make a noise when we move.The word teleology comes from telos, which means "purpose" or "goal." The idea is that it takes a "purposer" to have purpose, and so, where we see things obviously intended for a purpose, we can assume that those things were made for a reason. In other words, a design implies a designer. We instinctively make these connections all the time. The difference between the Grand Canyon and Mount Rushmore is obvious—one is designed, one is not. The Grand Canyon was clearly formed by non-rational, natural processes, whereas Mount Rushmore was clearly created by an intelligent being—a designer. When we are walking on a beach and find a wristwatch, we do not assume that time and random chance produced the watch from blowing sand. Why? Because it has the clear marks of design—it has a purpose, it conveys information, it is specifically complex, etc. In no scientific field is design considered to be spontaneous; it always implies a designer, and the greater the design, the greater the designer. Thus, taking the assumptions of science, the universe would require a designer beyond itself (i.e., a supernatural designer).

The teleological argument applies this principle to the whole universe. If designs imply a designer, and the universe shows marks of design, then the universe was designed. Clearly, every life form in Earth's history has been highly complex. A single strand of DNA equates to one volume of the Encyclopedia Britannica. The human brain has approximately 10 billion gigabytes of capacity. Besides living things here on Earth, the whole universe seems designed for life. Literally hundreds of conditions are required for life on Earth—everything from the mass density of the universe down to earthquake activity must be fine-tuned in order for life to survive. The random chance of all these things occurring is literally beyond imagination. The odds are many orders of magnitude higher than the number of atomic particles in the whole universe! With this much design, it is difficult to believe that we are simply an accident. In fact, top atheist/philosopher Antony Flew's recent conversion to theism was based largely on this argument.

In addition to demonstrating God's existence, the teleological argument exposes shortcomings in the theory of evolution. The  movement in science applies information theory to life systems and shows that chance cannot even begin to explain life’s complexity. In fact, even single-celled bacteria are so complex that, without all of their parts working together at the same time, they would have no survival potential. That means those parts could not have developed by chance. Darwin recognized that this might be a problem someday just by looking at the human eye. Little did he know that even single-celled creatures have too much complexity to explain without a creator!

Administrator Notice
The text of this post appears to come verbatim from gotquestions.org (http://www.gotquestions.org/Does-God-exist.html and http://www.gotquestions.org/teleological-argument.html). Posting another person's words and trying to pass them off as original, or failing to properly cite your source, falls foul of the plagiarism rule. Please do not do this again.

Yes, there's a specific prerequisite for a planet bearing life. Which explains why there are countless planets that we've seen that don't. That's not proof of design. at least not intelligent design. Did the creator just try and fail multi trillions of times, and finally succeed at this one? Eventually he got one right. Congrats. We see a lot of failed attempts, though.

A single cell is a modern evolutionary development. The early earth didn't have single cells. There were much more primitive things at the beginning. Even the simplest things we find today are a product millions of years in the making. The more complex somethign is, the more an indication that it wasn't designed. Or that it was designed very poorly.

The Human body is poorly designed. We have a quadrupedal skeleton while trying to walk upright. We have one tube for both digestion and breathing, with just a flap in between. we have several organs that will most likely need to be removed in our lifetimes so they don't cause lethal complications. Our children are born underdeveloped so that childbirth is even possible.

You don't need a "purposer" to have a purpose. Things that lack a purpose tend to die off, thus leaving only things that have beneficial or neutral effects.

Don't start with the watchmaker argument. Watches don't happen in nature. Neither do heads on mountains, though there are some things found in nature that look like they were created by someone. Humans love finding patterns, and they think this pattern couldn't come by change or natural effect. Except everything we've ever had a provable explanation for has been explained by natural processes.

DNA, like cells, are a modern development of something more primitive. It wasn't around in the beginning.

The odds are small, which is why it hasn't happened everywhere, but it did happen. If you have a deck of cards, you will eventually draw a royale flush. the odds are small, btu the more you try, the chances are you'll eventually get it. That doesn't mean some third party dictated you would get the royale flush. It just means anything that is possible will eventually happen.

If the universe really was designed, it wasn't intelligently.


Also it's not a good sign when you copy/paste answers from other places. Even if you want to cite a source, at least put it in your own words. There's an assumption that we would be debating YOU. Not some other article writer you googled.

(September 24, 2015 at 4:41 pm)Faith No More Wrote: My favorite part of each of these evangelicals that regurgitate nonsense is that each of them acts like they are bringing something new to the table.  I think it boils down to the misconception that atheists are only non-believers because they haven't heard the arguments.

If you will not believe you will not be saved.Am worried about you that you will not be able to make it to heaven.

"But for the cowardly and unbelieving and abominable and murderers and immoral persons and sorcerers and idolaters and all liars, their part will be in the lake that burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death."Revelation 21:8

(September 24, 2015 at 4:32 pm)Grehoman Ebenezer Wrote:

(September 24, 2015 at 4:30 pm)drfuzzy Wrote: You REALLY think this is news?  You really think we haven't seen these ridiculous inane clips thousands of times?  Seriously?  Stop posting other people's work.  If you want to talk to us, talk to us in your own words.

Please be honest.Thank You

---

{snip}
Genesis 19New International Version (NIV)
Sodom and Gomorrah Destroyed
19 The two angels arrived at Sodom in the evening, and Lot was sitting in the gateway of the city. When he saw them, he got up to meet them and bowed down with his face to the ground. 2 “My lords,” he said, “please turn aside to your servant’s house. You can wash your feet and spend the night and then go on your way early in the morning.”
“No,” they answered, “we will spend the night in the square.”
3 But he insisted so strongly that they did go with him and entered his house.He prepared a meal for them, baking bread without yeast, and they ate.4 Before they had gone to bed, all the men from every part of the city of Sodom—both young and old—surrounded the house. 5 They called to Lot, “Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us so that we can have sex with them.”
6 Lot went outside to meet them and shut the door behind him 7 and said, “No, my friends. Don’t do this wicked thing. 8 Look, I have two daughters who have never slept with a man. Let me bring them out to you, and you can do what you like with them. But don’t do anything to these men, for they have come under the protection of my roof.”
9 “Get out of our way,” they replied. “This fellow came here as a foreigner, and now he wants to play the judge! We’ll treat you worse than them.” They kept bringing pressure on Lot and moved forward to break down the door.
10 But the men inside reached out and pulled Lot back into the house and shut the door. 11 Then they struck the men who were at the door of the house, young and old, with blindness so that they could not find the door.
12 The two men said to Lot, “Do you have anyone else here—sons-in-law, sons or daughters, or anyone else in the city who belongs to you? Get them out of here, 13 because we are going to destroy this place. The outcry to the Lordagainst its people is so great that he has sent us to destroy it.”
14 So Lot went out and spoke to his sons-in-law, who were pledged to marry[a]his daughters. He said, “Hurry and get out of this place, because the Lord is about to destroy the city!” But his sons-in-law thought he was joking.
15 With the coming of dawn, the angels urged Lot, saying, “Hurry! Take your wife and your two daughters who are here, or you will be swept away when the city is punished.”
16 When he hesitated, the men grasped his hand and the hands of his wife and of his two daughters and led them safely out of the city, for the Lord was merciful to them. 17 As soon as they had brought them out, one of them said, “Flee for your lives! Don’t look back, and don’t stop anywhere in the plain! Flee to the mountains or you will be swept away!”
18 But Lot said to them, “No, my lords,[b] please! 19 Your[c] servant has found favor in your[d] eyes, and you[e] have shown great kindness to me in sparing my life. But I can’t flee to the mountains; this disaster will overtake me, and I’ll die. 20 Look, here is a town near enough to run to, and it is small. Let me flee to it—it is very small, isn’t it? Then my life will be spared.”
21 He said to him, “Very well, I will grant this request too; I will not overthrow the town you speak of. 22 But flee there quickly, because I cannot do anything until you reach it.” (That is why the town was called Zoar.[f])
23 By the time Lot reached Zoar, the sun had risen over the land. 24 Then theLord rained down burning sulfur on Sodom and Gomorrah—from the Lord out of the heavens. 25 Thus he overthrew those cities and the entire plain, destroying all those living in the cities—and also the vegetation in the land. 26 But Lot’s wife looked back, and she became a pillar of salt.
27 Early the next morning Abraham got up and returned to the place where he had stood before the Lord. 28 He looked down toward Sodom and Gomorrah, toward all the land of the plain, and he saw dense smoke rising from the land, like smoke from a furnace.
29 So when God destroyed the cities of the plain, he remembered Abraham, and he brought Lot out of the catastrophe that overthrew the cities where Lot had lived.
Lot and His Daughters
30 Lot and his two daughters left Zoar and settled in the mountains, for he was afraid to stay in Zoar. He and his two daughters lived in a cave. 31 One day the older daughter said to the younger, “Our father is old, and there is no man around here to give us children—as is the custom all over the earth. 32 Let’s get our father to drink wine and then sleep with him and preserve our family linethrough our father.”
33 That night they got their father to drink wine, and the older daughter went in and slept with him. He was not aware of it when she lay down or when she got up.
34 The next day the older daughter said to the younger, “Last night I slept with my father. Let’s get him to drink wine again tonight, and you go in and sleep with him so we can preserve our family line through our father.” 35 So they got their father to drink wine that night also, and the younger daughter went in and slept with him. Again he was not aware of it when she lay down or when she got up.
36 So both of Lot’s daughters became pregnant by their father. 37 The older daughter had a son, and she named him Moab[g]; he is the father of the Moabites of today. 38 The younger daughter also had a son, and she named him Ben-Ammi[h]; he is the father of the Ammonites[i] of today.

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(September 24, 2015 at 3:42 pm)Grehoman Ebenezer Wrote: Jesus said it's only offence if you brake any of these rules,Copying work for the sake of God's glory is no sin.
[Edit]
Now I had to copy and paste these,but I did it for God's glory.and therefore it's not a sin.

My bold.

Did you get this straight from god? Or is this your justification that allows you to plagiarize. I don't think plagiarism was around when those rules were made. Is god static so that something not conceivable a millenia(s) ago is not a sin?

What's that one, Oh yeah: Render unto Caesar..........

You should probably go while your behind. I see nothing good coming from this.

I'll say this for you, Grehoman Ebenezer, you caused me to kudos MysticKnight twice in one thread. That's some fancy miracle-working on your part. Praise Allah!