(October 8, 2015 at 10:12 pm)sinnerdaniel94 Wrote: Christians believe that we are the cause of suffering and death in the world due to our sin. For the wages of sin is death.

And yet, your loving gawd has been content to stand an the sidelines for nearly 2000 years doing fuck-all to help.

(October 8, 2015 at 11:46 pm)SnakeOilWarrior Wrote:

(October 8, 2015 at 10:12 pm)sinnerdaniel94 Wrote: Christians believe that we are the cause of suffering and death in the world due to our sin. For the wages of sin is death.

And yet, your loving gawd has been content to stand an the sidelines for nearly 2000 years doing fuck-all to help.

He sent His Son to die, so that we don't have to pay for our sins. that's doing something

(October 8, 2015 at 11:27 pm)sinnerdaniel94 Wrote: if its impossible to know the right answer, then why try? why is it a duty to make sure everyone is happy and safe? why do you strive to be free and happy? where did that concept come from? and if its just a result of human invention and imagination, then there is no reason to tell anyone to do anything, rather it's just a suggestion; no one can say you're truly wrong in anything. It's just your opinion. Someone can suggest to a murderer to not kill, but I don't see why he should take you seriously.

Are you just asking random questions, or do you really not grasp why people have evolved as a cooperative, social species?

I am having a really, really hard time believing you seriously think those are valid questions. It simply does not follow that if we are not a theocratic state working from divine fiat, we cannot make moral judgments.

Societies make "just our opinion" decisions all the time. We enforce collective rules of behavior that seek to prevent harm to one another and allow for maximal individual freedom with protected individual rights and privileges. It is  all opinion, which is why we can lobby and attempt to convince our fellow members of society that a new idea is better than an old one. The Civil Rights Movement was exactly such a case. Yes, it was "just their opinion", but they managed to convince members of the majority that it was a good opinion, and one that should be shared generally by that society. A century ago, you could stand in the door of the governor's mansion in most states and declare that you're a white supremacist; now, I challenge you to find one willing to agree publicly that they believe one race is inferior to another. Society not only changed, it enacted protections that stopped people who didn't agree from harming those that most of us had realized deserved such basic dignity and social protection.

But it's still just our opinion. So what? Are you just trying to shame me because I'm not so arrogant as to claim I have The One Right Way To Live™ in a handy Believer's Guide in my pocket? Is it really so hard to grasp that there are often no "right" solutions, only effective compromises and/or "steps in the right direction", in the real world?

You're speaking in absolutes. Only a Sith deals in absolutes.

My ideal God is exactly like the one we have... One that forces science to progress humanity without intervening. Writing books about gods is something chimps do while they evolve as a society. It's all perfectly natural.

Joe Pesci

(October 8, 2015 at 11:48 pm)sinnerdaniel94 Wrote:

(October 8, 2015 at 11:46 pm)SnakeOilWarrior Wrote: And yet, your loving gawd has been content to stand an the sidelines for nearly 2000 years doing fuck-all to help.

He sent His Son to die, so that we don't have to pay for our sins. that's doing something

Maybe you can explain how that helps 2000 years of suffering and death, even if it really happened? No. Your gawd has done exactly fuck-all to alleviate suffering.

Would worship:

I say we take a vote and promote her to the position.

(October 8, 2015 at 11:55 pm)TRJF Wrote: Would worship:

I say we take a vote and promote her to the position.

Do you read much Piers Anthony?!?

I could never honestly worship *the god* for the reasons pyrrho mentions, but I can imagine goimg to heaven or whatever, and there's this creator god who's a real asshole, but then a few doors down, there's Dionysos who didn't get much say in the creation of the world except from time to time could influence matters a bit to make sure that there is Riesling and Scotch, and Quiche Lorraine. A god who's not responsible for the mess and has good intentions.

(October 8, 2015 at 11:50 pm)TheRocketSurgeon Wrote:

(October 8, 2015 at 11:27 pm)sinnerdaniel94 Wrote: if its impossible to know the right answer, then why try? why is it a duty to make sure everyone is happy and safe? why do you strive to be free and happy? where did that concept come from? and if its just a result of human invention and imagination, then there is no reason to tell anyone to do anything, rather it's just a suggestion; no one can say you're truly wrong in anything. It's just your opinion. Someone can suggest to a murderer to not kill, but I don't see why he should take you seriously.

Are you just asking random questions, or do you really not grasp why people have evolved as a cooperative, social species?

I am having a really, really hard time believing you seriously think those are valid questions. It simply does not follow that if we are not a theocratic state working from divine fiat, we cannot make moral judgments.

Societies make "just our opinion" decisions all the time. We enforce collective rules of behavior that seek to prevent harm to one another and allow for maximal individual freedom with protected individual rights and privileges. It is  all opinion, which is why we can lobby and attempt to convince our fellow members of society that a new idea is better than an old one. The Civil Rights Movement was exactly such a case. Yes, it was "just their opinion", but they managed to convince members of the majority that it was a good opinion, and one that should be shared generally by that society. A century ago, you could stand in the door of the governor's mansion in most states and declare that you're a white supremacist; now, I challenge you to find one willing to agree publicly that they believe one race is inferior to another. Society not only changed, it enacted protections that stopped people who didn't agree from harming those that most of us had realized deserved such basic dignity and social protection.

But it's still just our opinion. So what? Are you just trying to shame me because I'm not so arrogant as to claim I have The One Right Way To Live™ in a handy Believer's Guide in my pocket? Is it really so hard to grasp that there are often no "right" solutions, only effective compromises and/or "steps in the right direction", in the real world?

You're speaking in absolutes. Only a Sith deals in absolutes.

My questions are genuine. It seems like you're saying we should make these laws just like how I'm saying believe the bible. your statements have an absolute tone to them. how can you tell people what to do? you're just as "bad" as what God is commanding then.