(October 22, 2015 at 1:48 am)KevinM1 Wrote: Sin is equally the dumbest and most insidious invention created by humanity.

maybe that is why it is called sin

(October 22, 2015 at 9:05 am)Drich Wrote:

(October 22, 2015 at 1:48 am)KevinM1 Wrote: Sin is equally the dumbest and most insidious invention created by humanity.

maybe that is why it is called sin

But sin again is just a made up concept. Sin it's is a general term for "you gonna do bad shit".
Biblically speaking you are born into sin, here is the kicker about that adam and eve never existed to begin with so you clearly aren't
born into sin.  So yeah sin it's made up get over it. And what are you to speak  about who people should love any ways? You probably have a wife and kids just don't be a judgmental dick about homosexuals they have it hard as it is, also now everyone has marriage equality which is the right step in ending bigotry.

There's one more scenario I came up with. Afterwards, I realized it's pretty similar to one of Stephen King's books.

"God" is a child in another much more advanced civilization in another reality. He is playing with toys, and he has no idea that they have somehow become aware. It would give us the illusion of free will, but actually this child is pulling all the strings. Sometimes he makes us "naughty", and then punishes us. It's just a game to him, he doesn't realize the suffering he is causing.

(October 22, 2015 at 10:22 am)robvalue Wrote: There's one more scenario I came up with. Afterwards, I realized it's pretty similar to one of Stephen King's books.

"God" is a child in another much more advanced civilization in another reality. He is playing with toys, and he has no idea that they have somehow become aware. It would give us the illusion of free will, but actually this child is pulling all the strings. Sometimes he makes us "naughty", and then punishes us. It's just a game to him, he doesn't realize the suffering he is causing.

Oddly enough that would make since or were some type of video game characters in a video game like sims. 
Or even better were just living a virtual life in some sort of game as a avatar while we die in game would be logging off,  and
god being the over all GM of it all.

(October 22, 2015 at 10:22 am)robvalue Wrote: There's one more scenario I came up with. Afterwards, I realized it's pretty similar to one of Stephen King's books.

"God" is a child in another much more advanced civilization in another reality. He is playing with toys, and he has no idea that they have somehow become aware. It would give us the illusion of free will, but actually this child is pulling all the strings. Sometimes he makes us "naughty", and then punishes us. It's just a game to him, he doesn't realize the suffering he is causing.

Something like the Sims games for us. It's only, he gives the impression of a grumpy old man playing. Swearing and cursing under his breath whenever the Sims start enjoying themselves.

(October 22, 2015 at 2:06 am)Losty Wrote:

(October 21, 2015 at 1:21 pm)Drich Wrote: Not want to sin. Hate our sin.

If homosexuality is the sin and the person is a homosexual, then this implies that the person should not only not want to be who they are but they should hate who they are.

Why? Is it your opinion that any of us, gay/straight you, me, the pope any less sinful than they are? We are all in the same sin boat. (Christians included) Till the day we die. Nothing will ever change that. The only difference is that the Christian acknoweledges his sin, and understand the only way to be redeemed of it is through atonement. Even so None of us According to Paul will ever lead a sin free life.

Quote:I don't give any fucks about what you see as righteous behavior. There is nothing good about making a person feel guilt and shame about who they are when they have not hurt anyone.

I agree, that is why I teach my kids to separate sin from who the are as a person, as Paul teaches in Romans. The bigger problem you all seem to be missing is the fact that our society has so gorded itself on self serving behavior that we have become what we 'eat.' Or in this case what we do. That we are Homosexual or Hetrosexual, rather than be a person first who then has this or that type of sex. That way like the north Koreans when anyone speaks critically about a behavior good or bad the individual can not separate themselves from their behavior. This is the Slavery to sin The bible talks about. Again just like the North Koreans are a slave to their state, Allowing a child identify with that one specific behavior, and allowing that behavior dictate who they will become, is the same as being a slave to the state.

The real debate should be on why we allow our children to view themselves this way to begin with. We as a society should not be focoused on what makes us different but what unites us and makes us the same.

Quote:Being homosexual and/or acting on homosexual desires is not morally wrong. It causes no harm and it is none of your fucking business

That's because 'morals change from society to society and from generation to generation. It is also why True righteousness has nothing to do with what is 'morally' right or wrong. It's solely based on redemption. Which means the true purpose of the moral law is only to show that we all need to be redeemed.

Quote:Who I have sex with doesn't concern you and your opinion of it is irrelevant.

Which is why I prefaced this whole topic by saying I would only share these things with a homosexual who wanted to know God.

Quote:While you may reserve your right to have an opinion on the matter, the moment you try to tell me that I should hate my desire to have sex with women you are crossing lines you have no right to cross. And fuck you for that. When you say that I should feel true remorse if I have sex with a woman and ask your god for forgiveness....that is just fucking disgusting and cruel. People who have sex in any way that you consider to be a sin (without causing any harm to anyone), haven't done anything wrong.

Because again ever changing "morality" allows you to deem 'right and wrong' based on what pop culture feels at the time. Which is why Righteousness/God's Righteousness has nothing to do with the law or your understanding of 'morality.'

Quote:Life is hard enough without assholes like you coming along and thinking you have a right to tell me that I should feel guilty for who I am. That I should repent desires that I have no control over. That I should deny who I am at every turn to appease your world view. No. Just no.

Life is 'hard' because you are a slave to the things you want to identify with, and you have traded personal freedom that God wants you to have for the demand that you identify your individuality with whatever self indulgent thing you want to do. That is the cost of sin. So that when sin is identified as wrong you must identify yourself as wrong. But, again You, me, the Homosexual, the pope and everyone in between are all infected with the same sin, we are all in the same boat. Christianity frees one from sin and shame, allowing the person to free themselves from what they do as their only means of self identifying.

For example, look at all the wicked things I've been called because of what I believe. I don't feel persecuted, I don't feel bad for what I do or say, nor am I ashamed. Why? Because I do not identify and derive my self worth from my works/deeds. I am first. Then I do. Rather than I do, which defines who I am. If any social order demands you identify yourself through a principle or some way of life (like the North Korean government) How can you say it does not hurt people when it clearly consumes any vestige of a given individual, and turns them into a walking talking representation of a principle/way of life? So then how is identifying as a homosexual first, any different?

(October 22, 2015 at 8:42 am)robvalue Wrote: If we haven't been given free will, it gets even more retarded.

Just because we haven't been given Free will/complete autonomy does not mean we have been stripped of all choice.
We have been given Choice/The ablity to chose. That choice is to remain a slave to sin/The wage of sin, or be redeemed and be given eternal life.

Quote: God makes things have a purpose, then doesn't allow us to choose whether or not to use them for that purpose. Since we have no input, unless he's constantly surprised by what happens, he knew all along whether or not we'd use things for their purpose.

So... You are the decider of what 'purpose' everything on the planet has? A few hours ago you thought we all had 'free will.' Let's say 'what if' the 'purpose' you assigned certain things was not the purpose at all? Or even has a larger purpose than what you currently invisioned.

Quote:We're a puppet show that he's made self aware. Once the show is over he punishes some of the puppets for things they had no say in.

This would be true IF their were no way to redeem ourselves.

Quote:What a dick. And by the same argument, he's designed me to think he's a vile monster. He's made me write this, saying what a lunatic he is. And then he'll punish me for his decision. There's no point preaching to me either since I have no decisions to make; although people don't have the choice whether to preach or not either.

What a bizarre belief system.

Again No free will does not mean we have not been given things to choose. Even the harshest slave owners gave their slaves some personal liberties. For instance You Chose to sin and be a slave to sin the very first time you became aware of the meaning of sin and what it meant to sin, but decided to sin anyway. From that one sin on, even if you never ever sinned again, by choosing sin, you chose to be bound in slavery to your sin, and death (Both Physical and Spiritual) Now you get to chose whether or not to simply die by the choice you originally made to be a slave to sin or to seek redemption and live.

(October 22, 2015 at 10:07 am)dyresand Wrote: But sin again is just a made up concept.

From God..

Quote:Sin it's is a general term for "you gonna do bad shit".

reference?

Quote:Biblically speaking you are born into sin,

Book, Chapter and verse please.

Quote:here is the kicker about that adam and eve never existed to begin with

proof?

Quote:so you clearly aren't
born into sin.

We are not 'born in sin because the bible does not say we are born in sin. We are born unto sin. The difference? We are not born a sinner. we are born with a predisposition to sin. Meaning sin is not sin till we understand the nature of it and do it anyway. You are confusing religious tradition with biblical teaching. They are not the same.

Quote:  So yeah sin it's made up get over it. And what are you to speak  about who people should love any ways? You probably have a wife and kids just don't be a judgmental dick about homosexuals they have it hard as it is, also now everyone has marriage equality which is the right step in ending bigotry.

do you really not understand what we are talking about?

since the beginning I assumed you just did not take the time to read my posts and just posted crap based on what you think my arguments are. Now I'm getting the vibe that you really do not understand the basic principles of what I am talking about. If this is the case I can break it down to the basics if you like.

(October 22, 2015 at 10:22 am)robvalue Wrote: There's one more scenario I came up with. Afterwards, I realized it's pretty similar to one of Stephen King's books.

"God" is a child in another much more advanced civilization in another reality. He is playing with toys, and he has no idea that they have somehow become aware. It would give us the illusion of free will, but actually this child is pulling all the strings. Sometimes he makes us "naughty", and then punishes us. It's just a game to him, he doesn't realize the suffering he is causing.

Can you draw any parallels between your Stephen king idea of God and what the bible actually says or do you just really think you have a correct view of God?

Let's pretend you truly know nothing about God in any way shape or form outside of the the word God and a general sense of what He is supposed to be.

Now, how would you go about validating your version of God? Now what if again, you were 100% wrong about everything? Woould you continue down your path of a god of your own making so you could (in your own mind win arguments) or would you IDK maybe ask a question or 2 about the vast difference between your version of God and the God of the bible your version keeps fall short of?

(October 22, 2015 at 9:05 am)Drich Wrote:

(October 22, 2015 at 1:37 am)Irrational Wrote: Doesn't have to be explicitly stated.

Ok so where did I hint at hate.. We've had probably a dozen different 'gay' debates since I've been a member here I invite you to go back and look at all of them and find something explicitly stated or not (show me where I was truly hinting at hate) So me something, or the comment can be dismissed as an unfounded ad hoc attack

You display a strong aversion to homosexuality for no reason other than because it's a sin.
 
And did you mean ad hominem?

Ad hoc means this:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hoc