(October 29, 2015 at 7:33 am)pool Wrote: I'm sorry if you are not familiar with programming because that Is the only way I seem to be able to explain what I mean to others in a way that they can understand(I.e, simplified to an unbearable extent).

Do you understand my other objections?

(October 29, 2015 at 1:12 pm)jenny1972 Wrote: nobody can prove anything either way there is no proof that there is an intelligent design although there are indications that there could be .

Correction, there is neither proof -nor- indication...until you provide either.  Make your case, it's past time.  

Quote:and there also is no proof in the unlikely possibility that everything that exists is just the result of random accidental perfect coordination between very different organisms that all live on the same earth . other than the big bang leftover noise that the scientist religious leaders have assumed must be from the big bang event.

I'm not sure what this has to do with our conversation.  Neither you nor I (or anyone else in this entire thread) are advancing this position.

If I write "god" on a sack of potatoes, and then throw those potatoes into a volcano, have I destroyed god?

(October 29, 2015 at 1:00 pm)jenny1972 Wrote: yes the "evidence" is the discovery of a mysterious noise that scientists assume must me the remnant of the " big bang " event . christianity has evidence too

No. The big bang predicted that this "noise" would be there. And we made this prediction before we could even look to see that it really was there.
Fast forward a few decades when we finally do have the technology to look for it and guess what? We found it.

(October 29, 2015 at 1:00 pm)Rhythm Wrote:

Quote:yes but why there are genetic variations is what is debatable  , you just dont want to question your religion

Let me get this straight, everytime science answers one of your "why" questions..you'll just return with a new "why" question....and then after all of that, pretend that science hasn't been answering your "why" questions all along?  If it hadn't..you wouldn't need to keep asking new questions.

Would you like me to explain why there is genetic variation.......will it matter if I do?

Isn't your beef, more accurately framed..not that science -can't- answer a why question, but that science -hasn't- answered every question you might dream up (even if it has answered many...for example every question you've asked thusfar)?  What exactly are you arguing, again?

im arguing that science does not know for a fact why there are different complex organisms on earth , they dont have a time machine just theories and assumptions just like religions and the concept that everything was created from nothing and nothing existed before the big bang is just a theory and not proven at all

(October 29, 2015 at 1:00 pm)jenny1972 Wrote: yes the "evidence" is the discovery of a mysterious noise that scientists assume must me the remnant of the " big bang " event . christianity has evidence too

The difference is this: that noise, which is actually microwave radiation, was predicted as a result of the BB hypothesis in 1948. Scientists took what we know about light's behavior and predicted that there ought to be an immensely red-shifted remnant, which Penzias and Wilson discovered in 1964. That is not an "assumption" -- that is the logical implication of a hypothesis that has been observed. This is how hypotheses are investigated and supported -- implications are deduced, predictions are made, evidence is gathered and analyzed, and the hypothesis is either discarded, modified, refined, or confirmed.

Equating that process with the bullshit in the Bible reveals an ignorance of the scientific method on your part. You'd do well to repair that ignorance before you resume pronouncements on matters scientific.

(October 29, 2015 at 12:49 pm)jenny1972 Wrote: yes but why there are genetic variations is what is debatable

It's only debateable to the uneducated. We know why genes mutate. We understand how their phenotypic expression allows outside influences to interact with the genotype.

If you think you're able to debate evolution, you'd better bring facts. I personally don't think you know much about it.

(October 29, 2015 at 12:49 pm)jenny1972 Wrote: [...] you just dont want to question your religion.

Equating scientific knowledge with blind faith doesn't reflect well upon you. You seem like a nice-enough person, but one desperately in need of higher education.

You let me know when religion tests its claims about gods or afterlives, and modifies them to accommodate reality.

Until then, this is just you flaunting your lack of insight.

(October 29, 2015 at 1:12 pm)jenny1972 Wrote: nobody can prove anything either way[...]

Firstly, science doesn't deal in proof -- that is the realm of logic and mathematics. Science deals in evidence.

The overwhelming mountain of evidence favors evolution by natural selection. And there is contrary evidence for "intelligent design". What is so intelligent about an eyeball that buries its light-receptors behind a sheath of blood vessels, thereby reducing effective vision? What is so intelligent about genetic predispositions to cancer? What is so intelligent about having an appendix prone to inflicting peritonitis upon bursting, as happens often?

(October 29, 2015 at 1:12 pm)jenny1972 Wrote: there is no proof that there is an intelligent design although there are indications that there could be .

ID has been pretty thoroughly discredited as an explanation for human physiology. It has also been demonstrated to have been created not to explain human physiology, but rather to afford the introduction of creationism into American schools.

(October 29, 2015 at 1:12 pm)jenny1972 Wrote: and there also is no proof in the unlikely possibility that everything that exists is just the result of random accidental perfect coordination between very different organisms that all live on the same earth .

There is, however, a veritable mountain of evidence, easily available to anyone who is actually interested in learning.

(October 29, 2015 at 1:12 pm)jenny1972 Wrote: other than the big bang leftover noise that the scientist religious leaders have assumed must be from the big bang event.

As shown above, this is an incorrect reading of events.

You really should read more and post less.

(October 29, 2015 at 1:23 pm)jenny1972 Wrote: im arguing that science does not know for a fact why there are different complex organisms on earth , they dont have a time machine just theories and assumptions just like religions and the concept that everything was created from nothing and nothing existed before the big bang is just a theory and not proven at all

Yes, science does know, for a fact - why there are different species.  We created and defined the term ourselves in order to explain that fact.....

There are different species, because those groups cannot interbreed.  This is what it -means- to be different species.  

Those groups cannot interbreed, because of genetic disparity.  This is -why- they are different species.  

Genetic disparity exists because mutations occur, and selection pressures exist.  This is -how- they come to be different species.

Do you understand?

(October 29, 2015 at 1:17 pm)Rhythm Wrote:

(October 29, 2015 at 1:12 pm)jenny1972 Wrote: nobody can prove anything either way there is no proof that there is an intelligent design although there are indications that there could be .

Correction, there is neither proof -nor- indication...until you provide either.  Make your case, it's past time.  

Quote:and there also is no proof in the unlikely possibility that everything that exists is just the result of random accidental perfect coordination between very different organisms that all live on the same earth . other than the big bang leftover noise that the scientist religious leaders have assumed must be from the big bang event.

I'm not sure what this has to do with our conversation.  Neither you nor I (or anyone else in this entire thread) are advancing this position.

what position ? that science has discovered how the universe was created exactly and why there are different complex organisms on the earth . a lot of people do think that i dont think that thats what im arguing against and saying these theories are just theories . yes science can and does know many things about nature but there is much that science cannot explain . whats wrong with challenging belief systems that claim to have everything all figured out but do not quite add up?

(October 29, 2015 at 12:20 pm)jenny1972 Wrote:

(October 29, 2015 at 11:50 am)Rhythm Wrote: No, you're suggesting that this universe is designed.  C'mon......you need to maintain a coherent string of responses for this to be a rational discussion.  We may not be that apex, but that doesn;t imply, suggest, or establish that the universe is designed.  Lets say, for purpose of argument....that there were 4billion other "better" creative species out there, and none of them designed the universe.

Do you see how one statement can be true....that we are not the creative apex, without the other statement being true - none of our betters are the "creator race"?

the only thing im saying is that based on the reality of our circumstances how different organisms evolved into different living things all on the same earth , the same environment under the same sun that its very likely that there is a reason for that and its a result of an intelligent plan ..... we know of planets that are capable of containing complex life and yet they dont . and those planets have been subjected to the same big bang right ?

There are an estimated 10000000000000000000000 earth sized planets in the observable universe. We haven't really checked any of them for life. We have only looked at 2 of them somewhat closer which are both rather inhospitable and don't fit your description well.

Also - What on earth do you mean by planets being subject to the same big bang???

I'm not saying it was God, but...