(January 2, 2016 at 3:52 pm)Deidre32 Wrote:

(January 2, 2016 at 3:46 pm)Pizza Wrote: I don't know why, but I think "you gotta have faith" is super creepy. It's intellectual death. God damn, if I'm going to believe in something I do so because I think have strong enough evidence. I'd honestly would prefer people arguing god exists because they saw Jesus in their swimming pool, over people believing just cuz faith. I'm sorry if this comes out harsher than I mean it to.

I used to be a 'just cuz faith' person, then deconverted, then had a faith experience, and now...I'm not a 'just cuz faith' person. I'm more of a believer now, because I've had an experience. In all things, it's not just enough to take other people's words for it, which religion is often proposing. All religions rest on people having faith that the stories they are reading really happened once upon a time. But, to experience something, and to have it change your outlook and life, and so on...that compels me more to view it as not mere coincidence, and shake it off. But, to each their own. lol

Out of interest and if you don't mind, can you describe your faith experience? (just interested, not gonna criticize)

(January 2, 2016 at 4:16 pm)robvalue Wrote:

(January 2, 2016 at 3:24 pm)Deidre32 Wrote: Just saw this post lol Okay, I see. In all honesty, many theists/believers need evidence too, but perhaps with faith, we are willing to accept that not all things have a scientific or objectively logical reason behind them. I'd imagine if a deity could be proven, it would need to be able to fit into a very small controlled environment in order to be tested. Which isn't entirely logical, either lol 

 You don't strike me as someone who would do that.

That's right, I'm not like that. I don't care what you believe or don't believe, it's all good. 

The place where the mystic, intuition toward faith worries me is when it goes to ground in established dogma. I'll cop to honoring those sorts of intuitions. But I never will cash them in for off the rack, religious beliefs. Creator god, after life and moral arbiter are not roles I'm casting for in my life.

(January 2, 2016 at 4:26 pm)Red_Wind Wrote:

(January 2, 2016 at 3:52 pm)Deidre32 Wrote: I used to be a 'just cuz faith' person, then deconverted, then had a faith experience, and now...I'm not a 'just cuz faith' person. I'm more of a believer now, because I've had an experience. In all things, it's not just enough to take other people's words for it, which religion is often proposing. All religions rest on people having faith that the stories they are reading really happened once upon a time. But, to experience something, and to have it change your outlook and life, and so on...that compels me more to view it as not mere coincidence, and shake it off. But, to each their own. lol

Out of interest and if you don't mind, can you describe your faith experience? (just interested, not gonna criticize)

I shared it in pm with two people here, and not that I don't 'want' to...but I can see that then going off the rails. lol 

(January 2, 2016 at 4:27 pm)Deidre32 Wrote:

(January 2, 2016 at 4:16 pm)robvalue Wrote:  You don't strike me as someone who would do that.

That's right, I'm not like that. I don't care what you believe or don't believe, it's all good. 

That's what I figured We can get along just fine then!

I respect that you believe your conclusions, of course. I'm not someone who denies people have experiences, and that they come to what they consider to be correct conclusions.

(January 2, 2016 at 4:33 pm)robvalue Wrote:

(January 2, 2016 at 4:27 pm)Deidre32 Wrote: That's right, I'm not like that. I don't care what you believe or don't believe, it's all good. 

That's what I figured We can get along just fine then!

I respect that you believe your conclusions, of course. I'm not someone who denies people have experiences, and that they come to what they consider to be correct conclusions.

You are a nice person, rob. 

Thank you

You are nice too! It's lovely to meet you

(January 2, 2016 at 4:30 pm)Whateverist the White Wrote: The place where the mystic, intuition toward faith worries me is when it goes to ground in established dogma.  I'll cop to honoring those sorts of intuitions.  But I never will cash them in for off the rack, religious beliefs.  Creator god, after life and moral arbiter are not roles I'm casting for in my life.

This is it. The heart of the issue. The issue of submission to a Guiding Lord through appointed Guides, is something you have to want for proofs and evidence to become effective per my belief.

As a Deist,  I tried my best to reason myself into morality. I felt like I could not know a lot of things, being blurry, but even if I felt something was wrong but didn't know it to be wrong, as long as there was no clear indication it was, I was free to do it if I desired so.

I then wanted to become more of new age person, looking for spiritual guides in the realm of the unseen, to guide me, but that they weren't of a specific religion or dogma. However then rational discourse over this whole issue began to take place. I haven't even talked about most of those reasons here. The Quran deals with so much angles proving religion of God. 

If you don't come with the spirit of 1:6 "Guide us the straight path", all reminders or signs in the soul, that point to the truth of God, his holy names, his signs within us, the connection of his lights and glories and his name/face with us, etc, have no avail.

There is a verse in Quran that says that to not be like a certain people who forgot God, so God made them forget themselves/their souls.

Perhaps I am going about this wrong.

I will try to clarify my position more clearly in the future.

(January 2, 2016 at 4:32 pm)Deidre32 Wrote:

(January 2, 2016 at 4:26 pm)Red_Wind Wrote: Out of interest and if you don't mind, can you describe your faith experience? (just interested, not gonna criticize)

I shared it in pm with two people here, and not that I don't 'want' to...but I can see that then going off the rails. lol 

Well i was just interested, i am rather fascinated on how someone can go back to being religious after becoming an atheist.Like what do they still believe about their religion, do they still believe in the same things as they did in the past before becoming an atheist?

(January 2, 2016 at 4:43 pm)Red_Wind Wrote:

(January 2, 2016 at 4:32 pm)Deidre32 Wrote: I shared it in pm with two people here, and not that I don't 'want' to...but I can see that then going off the rails. lol 

Well i was just interested, i am rather fascinated on how someone can go back to being religious after becoming an atheist.Like what do they still believe about their religion, do they still believe in the same things as they did in the past before becoming an atheist?

My beliefs are my own now, is how I'd explain it, as opposed to I just felt obligated to accept Christianity, because I was raised in it. And felt like some beliefs were my own over time, but still...not entirely. Now, they're my own, definitely feels different now identifying as a Christian as opposed to how I felt before deconverting.