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Mock dialogue of the Theist/Atheist discussion here.

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Mock dialogue of the Theist/Atheist discussion here.
Old Baby Offline
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#61
RE: Mock dialogue of the Theist/Atheist discussion here.
January 10, 2016 at 3:35 pm
I still haven't heard MK answer the question of why it's important for an atheist to validate the rationale of his belief.

It's been asked at least twice in the last few pages. MK ignores it.
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Mystic Offline
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#62
RE: Mock dialogue of the Theist/Atheist discussion here.
January 10, 2016 at 3:37 pm
(January 10, 2016 at 3:33 pm)Jenny A Wrote:
(January 10, 2016 at 3:24 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: Jenny A


It's useful question because we do have the means of answering it. I'm asking about your objective value. Not the weight of your body but the value of your self.

How is it possible it exists? Do you know it exists? And how do you know it exists if so? And if not, why you think people believe they have objective value?

Remember your perception of yourself is not what gives it objective value because as you said it's value is there regardless of what think it to be.

I don't have objective value.  That my thought processes exist is objectively verifiable.  You are reading proof of their existence in the form of out put.  But they have no objective value.  Objective value is an oxymoron.  Value, unlike weight is inherently subjective.
Do you have subjective value? If so, how so? Why do you believe in your perception of value of yourself? If not, then you do think it's irrational to value oneself?

I believe I have an objective value and subjective value. My parents have a subjective value of me. I have a subjective value of me. But I don't believe subjective value of a person is possible without a belief that they have objective value.

So to me, personally, I believe that would be a contradiction in terms. The only way to have subjective value  of yourself is to believe there is an objective value of yourself.
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Aoi Magi Offline
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#63
RE: Mock dialogue of the Theist/Atheist discussion here.
January 10, 2016 at 3:42 pm
Value? us measly humans? living on a speck of dust in the vast cosmos?
Spit Coffee
Quote:To know yet to think that one does not know is best; Not to know yet to think that one knows will lead to difficulty.
- Lau Tzu

Join me on atheistforums Slack Cool Shades (pester tibs via pm if you need invite) Tongue

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Mystic Offline
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#64
RE: Mock dialogue of the Theist/Atheist discussion here.
January 10, 2016 at 3:44 pm
(January 10, 2016 at 3:35 pm)Mr.wizard Wrote:
(January 10, 2016 at 3:29 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: If I answer it people will say I am asserting non-sense. So let you answer it.

What is a person's objective value? How does it exist? Do you know it exists? If not, why do you think people assume it exists?

And remember your perception of yourself Jenny A and I agreed is not what determines objective value.

How are you measuring this value?

I'm not measuring much like I'm not measuring the moon when I see (have no idea how big it is unless I read it somewhere and even then have no idea). However I can perceive that I have objective value. It's more like a sort of scent of that value I have but I don't know it. That said knowing I am not the one who determines my value/worth, then something else is has to explain where I get my objective value from.

Like Jenny A said, if put to the test of subjective beings, these things value/worth/beauty/justice/goodness all can't be objective. So you tell me, how do you think you have this value?

Jenny A said she didn't. I think she believes in subjective value. But we will see if that is an oxymoron without belief in objective value.
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Edwardo Piet Away
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#65
RE: Mock dialogue of the Theist/Atheist discussion here.
January 10, 2016 at 3:45 pm
I value friends.
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Mystic Offline
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#66
RE: Mock dialogue of the Theist/Atheist discussion here.
January 10, 2016 at 3:47 pm
(January 10, 2016 at 3:45 pm)Evie Wrote: I value friends.

Good.  Big Grin
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Mr.wizard Offline
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#67
RE: Mock dialogue of the Theist/Atheist discussion here.
January 10, 2016 at 3:48 pm (This post was last modified: January 10, 2016 at 3:48 pm by Mr.wizard.)
(January 10, 2016 at 3:44 pm)MysticKnight Wrote:
(January 10, 2016 at 3:35 pm)Mr.wizard Wrote: How are you measuring this value?

I'm not measuring much like I'm not measuring the moon when I see (have no idea how big it is unless I read it somewhere and even then have no idea). However I can perceive that I have objective value. It's more like a sort of scent of that value I have but I don't know it. That said knowing I am not the one who determines my value/worth, then something else is has to explain where I get my objective value from.

Like Jenny A said, if put to the test of subjective beings, these things value/worth/beauty/justice/goodness all can't be objective. So you tell me, how do you think you have this value?

Jenny A said she didn't. I think she believes in subjective value. But we will see if that is an oxymoron without belief in objective value.
Of course value is subjective, what the hell are you talking about
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Mystic Offline
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#68
RE: Mock dialogue of the Theist/Atheist discussion here.
January 10, 2016 at 3:51 pm
(January 10, 2016 at 3:48 pm)Mr.wizard Wrote:
(January 10, 2016 at 3:44 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: I'm not measuring much like I'm not measuring the moon when I see (have no idea how big it is unless I read it somewhere and even then have no idea). However I can perceive that I have objective value. It's more like a sort of scent of that value I have but I don't know it. That said knowing I am not the one who determines my value/worth, then something else is has to explain where I get my objective value from.

Like Jenny A said, if put to the test of subjective beings, these things value/worth/beauty/justice/goodness all can't be objective. So you tell me, how do you think you have this value?

Jenny A said she didn't. I think she believes in subjective value. But we will see if that is an oxymoron without belief in objective value.
Of course value is subjective, what the hell are you talking about

Hold on to your seats, we are about to go to overdrive. (in other words be patient)
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The Grand Nudger Offline
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#69
RE: Mock dialogue of the Theist/Atheist discussion here.
January 10, 2016 at 3:51 pm (This post was last modified: January 10, 2016 at 3:51 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
(January 10, 2016 at 11:13 am)MysticKnight Wrote: There has to be another way. This is like ping pong with no end. If there are good arguments for God and particular religion, we won't reach conclusion of it this way. And if there aren't any, a person who is mistaken in his reasoning to believe in God and their particular religion, will not find out either.

I know, I know..pages ago..but....why not?  Why won't we reach a conclusion this way, if there are good arguments for god?  It's how we reach conclusions on -everything- else.  Why won't a believer realize that his reasoning is poor this way........it's been working on everything else.  

Stop whining and accept your failure.  Wink
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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Mystic Offline
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#70
RE: Mock dialogue of the Theist/Atheist discussion here.
January 10, 2016 at 3:58 pm
(January 10, 2016 at 3:51 pm)Rhythm Wrote:
(January 10, 2016 at 11:13 am)MysticKnight Wrote: There has to be another way. This is like ping pong with no end. If there are good arguments for God and particular religion, we won't reach conclusion of it this way. And if there aren't any, a person who is mistaken in his reasoning to believe in God and their particular religion, will not find out either.

I know, I know..pages ago..but....why not?  Why won't we reach a conclusion this way, if there are good arguments for god?  It's how we reach conclusions on -everything- else.  Why won't a believer realize that his reasoning is poor this way........it's been working on everything else.  

Stop whining and accept your failure.  Wink

I don't believe in invisible dragon in my house....why do I believe in God if for the same reasons I should not believe in an invisible dragon. Obviously a Theist uses his reason to dismiss all sorts of things....so why not God?

According to you how we reach conclusions on everything else should apply to God. So why don't we dismiss it?
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Atheist Forums › Community › Atheism v
Mock dialogue of the Theist/Atheist discussion here.

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