saw that today

(February 11, 2011 at 6:33 am)Rayaan Wrote: This is not what they wanted. Suleiman is the chief torturer in Egypt. There is no way that the Egyptians are this stupid to fall for this.

They trust the military more now than the governments, so yes it what they want...

Trusting the military is almost always a mistake.

Better than thrusting the military.

(February 11, 2011 at 12:47 pm)Minimalist Wrote: Trusting the military is almost always a mistake.

Were it not for the secular military, Turkey today would be like Algeria.

(February 11, 2011 at 1:55 pm)Chuck Wrote:

(February 11, 2011 at 12:47 pm)Minimalist Wrote: Trusting the military is almost always a mistake.

Were it not for the secular military, Turkey today would be like Algeria.

that's not true. Islamism is stronger thanks to "secular military"

(February 11, 2011 at 5:01 pm)muhtesem insan Wrote:

(February 11, 2011 at 1:55 pm)Chuck Wrote:

(February 11, 2011 at 12:47 pm)Minimalist Wrote: Trusting the military is almost always a mistake.

Were it not for the secular military, Turkey today would be like Algeria.

that's not true. Islamism is stronger thanks to "secular military"

Let's not forget who set the secular base line here. Current mild resurgence of "Islamism" in Turkey may seem like a reaction to military domination, but it was the military who set the base line of secularism in Turkey against which the resurgence is even noticed. Were it not for the military, the baseline in modern Turkey would not have been such a secular society. Instead it would have been a much more backward and Islamic country to start with.

The military itself has no real political affiliations, to the point that it did absolutely nothing to stop the popular uprising. Mubarak had to go back to his old standby of hiring goons to beat up protesters, because the military didn't give a single fuck. Near as I can tell, the military doesn't want to be in charge, it just feels it's necessary for the moment.

Egypt is a poor country whose military is nevertheless relatively large, well equipped, well trained and most importantly well paid. This state of affairs is made possible largely by $1.4 billion of annual US aid. The military men of Egypt knows who it is that really butter their toast. They know what effect a Tiannammen style crack down on the protesters will have on the generosity of their vital benefactor. That's why tanks did not roll over the protesters. But it is a wholly different thing to say they would not hold on to power once it is in their hands, especially if they can protray themselves as a vital secular, western leaning bulwark against Islamization of Egyptian. The Egyptian society is much more vulnerable to rapid inroads by radical Islamization then you might realize.

Tahrir Square is still occupied. The protesters are saying that they will not move until the Army appoints a civilian administration who will oversee the elections.

I'm pretty sure that the CIA and others are probably maneuvering desperately to make this situation out to be in their favor, but the Egyptians are also maneuvering themselves as best they can as well. I hope they have the political will to overhaul the system as much as possible.

A 30-year system does not dismantle very easily and I would hate for them to lose hope and go back to the way things were. Even if the change is small and slow, it is worth it and they shouldn't give up. But on the other hand, there's also a good chance that it might not really turn out that pretty as people expected. Could be even worse than before.