Wait, wait. So if God won't show himself because to do so would invalidate my free will, what does that mean for Adam and Eve? Noah? Abraham? Moses? Any of the prophets? So are you telling me now that most of the major characters in the bible didn't have free will? Why should God care for my free will and not theirs?

To quote Creationist Cat:

DON'T THINK ABOUT IT!

I'd say sending 70% of the world's population at me with magical stories about how god is so real and is just hiding round the corner is also trying to alter my free will. If he wants me to make a proper, unbiased decision, maybe he should shut the fuck up.

Free will. For fuck's sake. It's the lamest argument ever. No wait, there are worse.

(February 7, 2016 at 1:15 pm)BlackBird Wrote: Wait, wait. So if God won't show himself because to do so would invalidate my free will, what does that mean for Adam and Eve? Noah? Abraham? Moses? Any of the prophets? So are you telling me now that most of the major characters in the bible didn't have free will? Why should God care for my free will and not theirs?

Precisely.

Adam and Eve were (according to the story) in the presence of god, and yet disobeyed him.  Cain slew Able despite having spoken to God. 

And what of Pharaoh's free will?  God hardened his heart in the story of Exodus.  Apparently it was fine to mess with his free will so that he wouldn't do what God wanted him to do so God could do what he wanted to do to get Pharaoh to do what he wanted him to do.  (Confused yet?  And you thought him sacrificing himself to himself to change a rule he himself made was weird!)

As for the issue of 'why are we predisposed to belief', I think part of it has to do with how accepting we are during the early development of our brains.  For example a child is more prone to believe that monsters lurk in the dark.  Checking for the monster under the bed only suggests to the child that the monster is real.  This makes them more afraid.  It's why as a parent, and a lot of parents I know don't check under the bed or in the closet for monsters.  Instead we tell them that there's no such thing as monsters.  A parent who insists that there is a god, instills that idea in their childrens minds I presume.  Even unintentionally.

Try eating more fiber, if you want to shake god.

(February 4, 2016 at 10:10 pm)athrock Wrote: Turns out it's pretty hard to believe in nothing when your psyche is wired for faith.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/postevery...age%2Fcard

After reading the article, my questions are:

Why on God's green earth is the human brain wired for faith when our development is the result of purely evolutionary processes with no supreme being involved at all?

Is it possible that God gave us brains that are pre-wired for receptivity to His existence to make it easier for us to believe in Him?

I think this could be a valid point. It seems like there is some sort of "instinct" in humans to worship something. There are exceptions though, of course.

(February 7, 2016 at 12:39 am)scoobysnack Wrote:

(February 7, 2016 at 12:27 am)Jenny A Wrote: You are equating thinking that it will rain, if you say it won't rain with negative thinking.  That's more than a little silly.

It's about focusing on what you want, not what you don't want. Whatever you focus on will manifest in some way or emotion, so it's best to stay positive, rather than focusing on what you don't want to influence your life. Kind of comes down to the confirmation bias.

Not that anyone will take this seriously, but I still remember the day my dad told me rake the leaves from the front lawn when I got home from school. I didn't want to, so started watching TV after school. I actually prayed which I don't normally do that I wouldn't have to rake the leaves. In the next 30 minutes the wind really picked up and blew all the leaves off the front lawn.

I'm not saying you can control the weather, but a positive attitude goes a long way to achieving your goals. You will be less likely to become discouraged and give up.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but isn't "I don't really feel like doing my chores" the exact opposite of having a positive attitude? And the very definition of "becom[ing] discouraged and giv[ing] up"?

(February 7, 2016 at 1:06 am)scoobysnack Wrote: Very well could have been a coincidence, but that's seriously a true story. I remember thinking whoa, did that happen because I prayed or what.

The fact that you had no way to tell the difference impales itself on the sharpest end of Occam's Razor and bleeds out all over your story.

(February 7, 2016 at 1:06 am)scoobysnack Wrote: Honestly I don't remember why I prayed, because I wasn't the one to pray that much especially something like not having to rake the leaves. It stuck with me though as something to contemplate.

And your contemplation led you to what you had already decided must have been the explanation. Quelle surprise.

(February 7, 2016 at 1:06 am)scoobysnack Wrote: Normally the leaves blow in the wind from yard to yard, but my dad actually congratulated me on the great job, even though I didn't do anything.

That's the power of positive thinking and not giving up again.

(February 7, 2016 at 1:06 am)scoobysnack Wrote: Strange thing there was leaves in other people's yards.

Yeah. From yours, you inconsiderate git. At least some of your neighbours would have cleared their own yards of leaves. Now they get your god blowing your shit over them just because you were too lazy to get up off your arse and do an hours work. The only thing that's strange here is that you think that we're all so stupid that we're going to take all this without the critical thinking that you obviously didn't do yourself.

(February 7, 2016 at 1:55 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote:

(February 4, 2016 at 10:10 pm)athrock Wrote: Turns out it's pretty hard to believe in nothing when your psyche is wired for faith.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/postevery...age%2Fcard

After reading the article, my questions are:

Why on God's green earth is the human brain wired for faith when our development is the result of purely evolutionary processes with no supreme being involved at all?

Is it possible that God gave us brains that are pre-wired for receptivity to His existence to make it easier for us to believe in Him?

I think this could be a valid point. It seems like there is some sort of "instinct" in humans to worship something. There are exceptions though, of course.

It might make sense  if every instinct we have were correct and there were no other explanation for the intinct though even then it would still be just another god of the gaps argument.  But all our instincts are not correct. We are a superstitious lot, we humans.  We are wIred for confirmation bias leading to supersitions.  Lots and lots of supertitions.  And the gap is fillling  up as there are good explanations for why we might have a faith instinct other than god put it there:  the need to learn from parents; anthromorphism;  confirmation bias; inner dialog; etc.

(February 7, 2016 at 2:33 pm)Jenny A Wrote:

(February 7, 2016 at 1:55 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: I think this could be a valid point. It seems like there is some sort of "instinct" in humans to worship something. There are exceptions though, of course.

It might make sense  if every instinct we have were correct and there were no other explanation for the intinct though even then it would still be just another god of the gaps argument.  But all our instincts are not correct. We are a superstitious lot, we humans.  We are wIred for confirmation bias leading to supersitions.  Lots and lots of supertitions.  And the gap is fillling  up as there are good explanations for why we might have a faith instinct other than god put it there:  the need to learn from parents; anthromorphism;  confirmation bias; inner dialog; etc.

True, true.

(February 7, 2016 at 1:57 am)scoobysnack Wrote:

(February 7, 2016 at 1:25 am)Cecelia Wrote: So what you're saying is God has time to blow the leaves out of your yard, but no time at all to help kidnap victims or starving children?

God: Oh, sounds like Scooby is praying to me!  He doesn't want to rake the leaves.  I know I'll blow them out of the yard, and then he can lie to his dad about doing the job himself.  Hmmm... wait a minute, a little girl has been kidnapped and is about to be murdered?  She's praying for my help... which do I help... which do I help.... I think I'll help Scooby.

 Haha, I know it sounds crazy. I wouldn't say God doesn't want to help everyone, but there is free will, which allows people to do bad things. Just because they happen doesn't mean God wills it to happen. He doesn't want it to happen at all, but earth is a place for learning, and through pain people learn lessons, which effect the universal consciousness of us all in hopes that we will learn to prevent those things to happen. Just like a parent doesn't want their child to get hurt, the child will experience life and through pain learn a lesson to avoid that in the future. It's part of life and learning. Do you get upset when a carnivore kills it's prey? It's the circle of life and nature.

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Check out this for the purpose of life, this will be helpful:

http://www.near-death.com/science/research/life.html

Of the info from Edgar Cayce about the purpose of life:

http://www.near-death.com/paranormal/edg...igins.html

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Wait, what????
So first, you're to lazy to obey your parent, so you pray for god to do your chores for you.  God apparently does, which inconveniences your neighbors, and allows you to get away with lying to your father.

Cecelia points out the inequity of that scenario, and comments that all over the earth, there are innocent children, (many of them Christian, not that it should matter) who are crying out to god to save them from starving, from being raped, from being beaten.  

And you just wave your hand and spout . . . utter smarmy selfish egotistical filth.  
"Just because they happen doesn't mean God wills it to happen. He doesn't want it to happen at all"  - so, your little itty bitty god will do your chores for you, and HELP you to sin, but the evil that is occuring all over the planet is not "his will".  REALLY?  And then, to make it even worse, you just wave your hand and say that the kids will learn from their torture.  It's the circle of life, you know?  Eat or be eaten.  But god does my chores for ME.

What kind of sick, sociopathic psycho ARE you???