(February 29, 2016 at 12:58 pm)Rhythm Wrote: So, the answer to my every question would be no, then...you haven't considered any of those things before, and won't be considering them now. You'll continue to stroke your peen at the expense of christ.  

As always, your efforts are appreciated.

No, my answer is indeed a resounding yes. I have considered what you have brought to my attention, that is why i provided you with the answers that i did.

That said I will not be changing my position without the correct 'change' on your part.

(February 29, 2016 at 12:55 pm)Drich Wrote:

(February 29, 2016 at 10:23 am)Jörmungandr Wrote: This is nothing more than a fallacious tu quoque argument.  Whether or not we are also guilty of immorality does not prevent us from being capable of judging immorality in another.  That simply doesn't follow logically.  

"Moral" people killing billions of unborn babies because the parent(s) don't want that child. Who these children would grow up to be is not apart of the equation. The only question being is the baby wanted?

So, yes you can judge... I have already conceded you can judge, however you do so from a position of hypocrisy. If you want to judge God evil for killing thousands, He will inturn use your own 'standard' (As Christ did with the pharisees) and hold the world accountable by their own standard. May their be mercy if you are a hypocrite.

Again this is a "take the plank out of your eye, before you concern yourself with the speck in the eye of God."

The appeal to hypocrisy is not an affirmative defense for God. Period. That you think a veiled threat will suffice when an affirmative defense is lacking is laughable. There is no God, so your threat is empty. Just as your defense of God is empty. If God indeed has a speck (or a plank) in his eye is not negated by the fact that I have a plank in mine. That simply doesn't follow.

Am I getting this right. To Drich god cannot do bad things because god is by being god good and as god is the only arbiter of good allowed god can do what the fuck she wants and still be good. Is this it or is Drich less coherent than I thought?

(February 29, 2016 at 2:21 pm)Drich Wrote: No, my answer is indeed a resounding yes. I have considered what you have brought to my attention, that is why i provided you with the answers that i did.

That said I will not be changing my position without the correct 'change' on your part.

Your preference for hammering down on your talking points as though you were responding to my questions betrays you, completely.  We both know that you have no flock, that you're not winning any hearts and minds here.  That no one believes a word that falls from your lips..at this point..not just about god, but random, unimportant shit. If you told us that your eyes were brown and you drove a Kia...I'd doubt the truth of even -that- claim.

You can confront that fact and your responsibility for it.....or you can continue to aggrandize yourself, your participation in these threads, and their results.

(February 29, 2016 at 2:22 pm)Jörmungandr Wrote: The appeal to hypocrisy is not an affirmative defense for God.  Period.  

It's not supposed to be. What it does is remove the authority 'pop-morality' has to to levi judgement. In that if pop Morality says God's "x" is immoral, then Soceity's"X" to the tenth power does not then become 'moral.' If does indeed consider "X" to the 10th power Moral, then it loses it's right to judge "x" to be immoral.

My plan is not to defend God, but to tear down what you use to attack Him.

Quote:That you think a veiled threat will suffice when an affirmative defense is lacking is laughable.

I don't see a threat what are you talking about?

Quote:  There is no God, so your threat is empty.  Just as your defense of God is empty.  If God indeed has a speck (or a plank) in his eye is not negated by the fact that I have a plank in mine.  That simply doesn't follow.

In the parable it self Jesus said "Remove the plank from your own eye first, so that you may see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye."

If you have a plank in your eye how can you then see the speck?

(February 29, 2016 at 2:28 pm)downbeatplumb Wrote: Am I getting this right. To Drich god cannot do bad things because god is by being god good and as god is the only arbiter of good allowed god can do what the fuck she wants and still be good. Is this it or is Drich less coherent than I thought?

What I am saying is 'we' with out God can not reliably identify Good or Bad. We see as 'good' to be something that benefits us. we see Bad as something harmful. However we can not see long term effects so we judge 'good and bad' on what we 'feel' the results of an action are right away. Rather than being to determine 'good or bad' on a larger long term scale.

(February 29, 2016 at 3:09 pm)Drich Wrote:

(February 29, 2016 at 2:22 pm)Jörmungandr Wrote:  There is no God, so your threat is empty.  Just as your defense of God is empty.  If God indeed has a speck (or a plank) in his eye is not negated by the fact that I have a plank in mine.  That simply doesn't follow.

In the parable it self Jesus said "Remove the plank from your own eye first, so that you may see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye."

If you have a plank in your eye how can you then see the speck?

The parable is nothing more than an analogy. What doesn't hold in the literal argument doesn't hold in an analogue, unless the analogy is a false one. Which in this case it is. Moral judgement isn't like vision in that it is not impaired by hypocrisy. You may question the moral standing of the hypocrite, but that does not make his judgements false. Only the falsity of the moral judgements makes them false. You claim that relative morality has no standing in which to judge. It has all the standing it needs as the only type of morality which exists. Your God does not exist, so "His" morality is nonexistent. You can't do better than the only kind of morality which exists. If you disagree, the burden is on you to show that another kind of morality exists.

You may be incapable of determining right from wrong without "god" ...Drich.  Most of us aren't.  Maybe you should go talk to someone about that...and let me just mention that we aren't qualified to help you in that regard..this isn't the kind of place that will help you fix or find your moral compass.  Clearly, the bible hasn't helped you in that either. Time to try something new, I'd say.

(February 29, 2016 at 2:28 pm)Rhythm Wrote: Your preference for hammering down on your talking points as though you were responding to my questions betrays you, completely.  We both know that you have no flock, that you're not winning any hearts and minds here.

What I won't ever betray are those who have indeed come to me in the past or that I might be dealing with now. Despite what you personally think there are 'afew' well known people and 'afew more' lesser known people who know the truth of the matter. It is to them that I am here for, and it is to them that I own a debt to.
That's all I have to say about that.

Quote: That no one believes a word that falls from your lips..at this point..not just about god, but random, unimportant shit.  If you told us that your eyes were brown and you drove a Kia...I'd doubt the truth of even -that- claim.  

My eyes are brown and I drive several different cars, as part of the business The Lord has put me in charge of is a car lot. (no kias BTW)
If you want PM me and I will provide you with our Truck trader page I can begin to show you I can literally back up every single thing I have ever claimed on this website, with either records (medical invoices) or with people who have either suffered or rejoiced with me through the wild ride God has put me on.. None of which is because there is anything special about me. My 'life' is the simple result of A/S/K and being faithful to what God has given me.
If your really feeling froggy you can call me on our listed toll free line! (then I get to count you as one of the 'hearts and minds' I won)

Quote:You can confront that fact and your responsibility for it.....or you can continue to aggrandize yourself, your participation in these threads, and their results.

Nothing I am offering here or have spoken of has ever derived from self. All of it is a gift from God. What I bring to the table are examples of God working through me and for me, because I serve Him with all that i am and all that I have. (He has given me one talent, i was faith with it, then he doubled it. I was faithful with that and he doubled it again and again.) I like Paul only have because God works with and through me. What I share with you 'good' people is God's glory and not my own.

-and without realizing it, you validate my every opinion of you. I've known competent preists, competent evangelicals, you're neither. What you are is an egomaniacal loon who thinks he's on a mission from god to share his gift. Your brothers in christ -declined- your services and so we here at AF now get to suffer them.

Look, I don't care to dispute that with you...assuming you were on such a mission...possessed of such a gift, do you not see how badly you're failing at that mission, and why is this gift so ineffective? You, yourself, might have something to do with that....-particularly- if your little fairy tale is true....which I honestly couldn't care less for regardless. If you think that we need god, perhaps you should get yourself out of the way?