Shows you how seriously they should be taken on any issue.

(March 2, 2016 at 6:10 pm)Drich Wrote:

(March 2, 2016 at 1:20 pm)downbeatplumb Wrote: So god could do literally anything, boil a baby and force feed it to its parents and because its god doing that it would be just Dandy coz god, is by default, good. And don't say that sort of thing would not happen because, lets face it, god has "form" for doing what we see as evil shit. turning a woman into a condiment for looking at, what was surely quite a spectacle, being one of the stranger ones. No this idea of yours is abhorrent and shows the paucity of what passes for thinking in some theists.

 Just because you or others like you want to assume the worse so you can live a little better than the worst somehow figure yourselves better than God. The problem with your 'what if...' God's law is complete. Has been for 2000 years. so then Where is the command to make parents boil and eat babies??? their isn't such a command so I can say with 100% assuredness that such a command will never come up.

You have missed the point which is that because of the "special" leeway you give to the god character then anything done by someone thinking they are doing his will becomes moral in the mind of the deranged. You can use this mindset to excuse any evil. Sure as eggs are eggs you can find support in the bible for any nasty thing you like. You say that the bible says nothing on boiling babies so it could never come up, but hang on, didn't you also say he was in contact with people today all you need to do is A/S/K and he could tell you to boil babies. He does seem to tell a lot of people do evil shit.

From my perspective there is no absolute on morality other than gravity works. It appear to me that you believe that there is some form of absolute that we can follow. It (the Bible) is not clear nor unfallable.

https://michaelsherlockauthor.wordpress....stianity…/

If it is the shaky hand of man that writes these absolutes then there is no God authority that made these absolutes. Which leads us back to just doing the best with what we have.

You probably wont change the opinion that the holy books are just man made so now we are left with attempting to see the present course of reality and make our best descion.

If you believe that homosexuality and pedophilia are on the same harm (to society) level then it will be near impossible for us to come to a compromise.

I would be arrogant to say that my thinking cannot be flawed but due to this understanding I am all to aware that I should think and question the events in my life.

I have not seen any clear guidance from a divine source. the only thing i have is my human guidence flawed and all. I can admit that it may be flawed but the religious deny such flaw and I feel that is where a majority of mistakes are made when it comes to "pop morality".

(March 1, 2016 at 4:33 pm)Ryantology (╯°◊°)╯︵ ══╬ Wrote:

(March 1, 2016 at 4:18 pm)Drich Wrote: Actually the reverse was true. Jesus Pointed out to the Pharisees that their 'pop morality' had changed them so much they were no longer able too identify God in their mist. It what got Jesus Killed.

The Pharissees were the conservative Jews of their time, who were unhappy with Jesus because he preached a radically different interpretation of Jewish Law than that which had been observed for centuries by that point (at least, that's how they saw it). In other words, they thought he was preaching 'pop morality' and had him killed in an attempt to stop it. 

Of course, both sides thought they were right. Because, y'know, morality is a subjective thing.

Actually, the pharissees were the radical group in judaism at the time, looking to open full temple worship to all jews. The conservative groups were the saducees and the essenes, who controlled the higher echelons of jewish religion and society.

The likelihood is that if there was a historical Jesus his thought ran very closely with the pharisees, if he wasn't a pharisee himself, and over the years his legend was morphed to have the pharisees as his enemys as they gained power over the other jewish factions. This can be most clearly seen by the fsct that it is the last written gospel, John (the anti-semitic one), which does the most talking about the pharisees being against Jesus.

Logan:

Indeed. Even if we were to accept the outlandish claim that the bible can teach us objective morality, how we interpret the book is entirely subjective. For one thing, it's a mess of contradictions. You have to choose the side you like best from each one, when it relates to morality.

This is very convenient for Christians. If the bible was straightforward and accurate, they wouldn't have all the excuses they can use for flipping to another page and reading out the exact opposite of the thing they don't want to do.

(March 3, 2016 at 12:57 pm)downbeatplumb Wrote:

(March 2, 2016 at 6:10 pm)Drich Wrote:  Just because you or others like you want to assume the worse so you can live a little better than the worst somehow figure yourselves better than God. The problem with your 'what if...' God's law is complete. Has been for 2000 years. so then Where is the command to make parents boil and eat babies??? their isn't such a command so I can say with 100% assuredness that such a command will never come up.

You have missed the point which is that because of the "special" leeway you give to the god character then anything done by someone thinking they are doing his will becomes moral in the mind of the deranged.

You can use this mindset to excuse any evil. Sure as eggs are eggs you can find support in the bible for any nasty thing you like. You say that the bible says nothing on boiling babies so it could never come up, but hang on, didn't you also say he was in contact with people today all you need to do is A/S/K and he could tell you to boil babies. He does seem to tell a lot of people do evil shit.

Everything you said here is absolutely true, About popular morality. The thing is with an absolute unchanging standard you can not justify anything on the list.

That's where morality comes in. It takes the absolute unchanging standard and makes provisions for 'some sin.' Sin society counts as small and would still allow one to be considered a 'good person.'

I do indeed see what you are saying. in that you think that because God could have put anything in his Law including boiling and eating babies, we would follow said law. That we gave Him unrestricted free reign to set the standard for good and sin. This is all true. However as I pointed out your hypothetical of boiling and eating babies nor any other horrific evil can never be considered nor counted as apart of God's law. God's law has been closed for over 2000 years. So whatever people 'claim' to be in the name of God but is not found in the bible is not 'for God'. It is not apart of Biblical Christianity, and it is not apart of His law. Therefore it can not be used to justify service of God in any way shape or form.

That would be an example of evil men using God as an excuse to allow the evil in their hearts to play out, and hoping you are too stupid to know any better.

As are as being in contact with people, this is true. However the only way we have to discern who is speaking with us (ourselves/Delusion or Satan) is to take what is said and hold it up to scripture to make sure both jive with one another.

a 'spirit of light'/angel supposedly set up Islam and Mormonism. He was well dressed and inspired both 'prophets' to go off path of scripture. Jesus Himself warns us of this very thing.

(March 3, 2016 at 9:01 pm)loganonekenobi Wrote: From my perspective there is no absolute on morality other than gravity works.  It appear to me that you believe that there is some form of absolute that we can follow.  It (the Bible) is not clear nor unfallable.

No.
There is a a standard in which righteousness is obtained. God set that standard because we are all playing in the existence he created. Thing is no one can live by that standard to ever earn righteousness. That is why we have been given the option of atonement. Atonement gives us the option to receive freely given righteousness of Christ.

Quote:https://michaelsherlockauthor.wordpress....stianity…/

If it is the shaky hand of man that writes these absolutes then there is no God authority that made these absolutes.  Which leads us back to just doing the best with what we have.

You probably wont change the opinion that the holy books are just man made so now we are left with attempting to see the present course of reality and make our best descion.

If you believe that homosexuality and pedophilia are on the same harm (to society) level then it will be near impossible for us to come to a compromise.

I would be arrogant to say that my thinking cannot be flawed but due to this understanding I am all to  aware that I should think and question the events in my life.  

I have not seen any clear guidance from a divine source. the only thing i have is my human guidence flawed and all.  I can admit that it may be flawed but the religious deny such flaw and I feel that is where a majority of mistakes are made when it comes to "pop morality".

Flaws are in the eye of the beholder.
I am not saying one can not find flaws. You can find flaws in a perfect diamond if you do not judge it by the standard in which diamonds are not typically judged. Or you can use this 'bizarrow'
standard to judge a diamond with heavy inclusions flawless.

Thats what morality is. It the standard that is not typically used to judged ourselves flawless.

God gets to sets a standard for us to follow, because He is the Father of creation. But the problem is God's standard is set so high we can not follow it. So He made a provision. Which should push an honest man to find another way/this provision (atonement) to obtain righteousness.

The key to understanding what is going on here is atonement requires repentance. (acknowledging sin, and turning your want and desire from it)

However rather than admitting this sin and repenting of it. Man develops 'morality.' Morality is a re working of God's standard to allow for the sins we judge tolerable/minor. God says It is always a sin to steal, Morality says it is ok to steal for a very good reason Eg.. Stealing to feed your starving baby. this way you can steal/sin and still be a 'good person.'

So rather than having one admit wrong doing, 'morality' allows one to justify their sin. Keeping them from the prospect of ever finding atonement.

Why is this important? with atonement one not only obtains the righteousness needed to enter heaven, it is not effected by our actions. We can neither do anything to earn righteousness or do anything to have it taken away. In essence we are free from the law/standard of God, so long as we do not lie to ourselves about our sin, and begin to harbor our sins as a point of pride or as a means to our self righteousness/morality. If we hold onto our sin through our 'moral behavior.' then we can never truly accept atonement because we through our feelings of 'morality' we will never repent.

So we then teach God's perfect standard to show that one can never live by it, and then move to substitute a life lived by judging actions against any standard, with absolute and complete freedom.

Do you understand what i have said here?

No judgement or harsh words. just looking to clarify.

(March 4, 2016 at 10:42 am)Drich Wrote: a 'spirit of light'/angel supposedly set up Islam and Mormonism. He was well dressed and inspired both 'prophets' to go off path of scripture. Jesus Himself warns us of this very thing.

You post something halfway rational, not agreeable, but rational looking, and then this.

And you wonder why hardly anyone is taking you seriously here?

All part of taking whatever inch might have separated us from christ before he decided to open his mouth, and by opening his mouth....stretching it to span a mile.

(March 4, 2016 at 11:28 am)abaris Wrote:

(March 4, 2016 at 10:42 am)Drich Wrote: a 'spirit of light'/angel supposedly set up Islam and Mormonism. He was well dressed and inspired both 'prophets' to go off path of scripture. Jesus Himself warns us of this very thing.

You post something halfway rational, not agreeable, but rational looking, and then this.

And you wonder why hardly anyone is taking you seriously here?

Like what i have to say or not my duty is to the whole truth of Scripture. I unlike others can not pick and choose what i want to share or with hold.

Gal 1:7 There is no other message that is the Good News, but some people are confusing you. They want to change the Good News about Christ. 8 We told you the true Good News message. So anyone who tells you a different message should be condemned—even if it’s one of us or even an angel from heaven! 9 I said this before. Now I say it again: You have already accepted the Good News. Anyone who tells you another way to be saved should be condemned!

10 Now do you think I am trying to make people accept me? No, God is the one I am trying to please. Am I trying to please people? If I wanted to please people, I would not be a servant of Christ.

In both cases of Mohammy, and Joey Smitty an "angel of the Lord appeared before them and taught a 'new doctrine.'


Again, The bible is the only way we know for sure it is God who is speaking to us.