You know what I'd like to see for once?

One of you actually acknowledging that others are just as firm in their believes and to respect them for that. The my god has the biggest and only dick approach doesn't sit so well with me.

Also, what you always fail to see, is your claim just to be one of many. Very many, actually.

(March 4, 2016 at 10:42 am)Drich Wrote: Everything you said here is absolutely true, About popular morality. The thing is with an absolute unchanging standard you can not justify anything on the list.

That's where morality comes in. It takes the absolute unchanging standard and makes provisions for 'some sin.' Sin society counts as small and would still allow one to be considered a 'good person.'

There has never been a standard of morality that hasn't changed. Lately it's been for the better because of the dropping of the biblical bits.

Quote:I do indeed see what you are saying. in that you think that because God could have put anything in his Law including boiling and eating babies, we would follow said law. That we gave Him unrestricted free reign to set the standard for good and sin. This is all true. However as I pointed out your hypothetical of boiling and eating babies nor any other horrific evil can never be considered nor counted as apart of God's law. God's law has been closed for over 2000 years. So whatever people 'claim' to be in the name of God but is not found in the bible is not 'for God'. It is not apart of Biblical Christianity, and it is not apart of His law. Therefore it can not be used to justify service of God in any way shape or form.

So your woman has to sacrifice a bird before being allowed back into your house after her period, you carry out repeated stonings and of course do not work on the Sabbath which of course is Saturday, Coz laws do not change not bitty bitty bit they don't.

Quote:That would be an example of evil men using God as an excuse to allow the evil in their hearts to play out, and hoping you are too stupid to know any better.

Evil men use religions to bend their followers to their will by claiming god or gods guidance all the time.

Quote:As are as being in contact with people, this is true. However the only way we have to discern who is speaking with us (ourselves/Delusion or Satan) is to take what is said and hold it up to scripture to make sure both jive with one another.

Men wrote the bible. So you are just following the prejudice of a rather intolerant age.

Quote:a 'spirit of light'/angel supposedly set up Islam and Mormonism. He was well dressed and inspired both 'prophets' to go off path of scripture. Jesus Himself warns us of this very thing.

People make up all sorts of shit don't they!

(March 4, 2016 at 12:20 pm)abaris Wrote: You know what I'd like to see for once?

One of you actually acknowledging that others are just as firm in their believes and to respect them for that. The my god has the biggest and only dick approach doesn't sit so well with me.

Also, what you always fail to see, is your claim just to be one of many. Very many, actually.

Again, I'm not here to sit well or sell anyone anything. I am providing the truth of the bible unfiltered through any given religious source. If that sits well fine, I'll show you the next step, if not that's ok too. My only purpose is to provide the truth to those who seek it, not bend it so i can makes friends or followers.

If you look at what Paul wrote at the end of the quoted block of of text: 10 Now do you think I am trying to make people accept me? No, God is the one I am trying to please. Am I trying to please people? If I wanted to please people, I would not be a servant of Christ.

This is how I feel and my charge. So I will follow it to the best of my ability and to the end of my strength to do so.

(March 4, 2016 at 1:00 pm)downbeatplumb Wrote:

(March 4, 2016 at 10:42 am)Drich Wrote: Everything you said here is absolutely true, About popular morality. The thing is with an absolute unchanging standard you can not justify anything on the list.

That's where morality comes in. It takes the absolute unchanging standard and makes provisions for 'some sin.' Sin society counts as small and would still allow one to be considered a 'good person.'

There has never been a standard of morality that hasn't changed. Lately it's been for the better because of the dropping of the biblical bits.

Quote:I do indeed see what you are saying. in that you think that because God could have put anything in his Law including boiling and eating babies, we would follow said law. That we gave Him unrestricted free reign to set the standard for good and sin. This is all true. However as I pointed out your hypothetical of boiling and eating babies nor any other horrific evil can never be considered nor counted as apart of God's law. God's law has been closed for over 2000 years. So whatever people 'claim' to be in the name of God but is not found in the bible is not 'for God'. It is not apart of Biblical Christianity, and it is not apart of His law. Therefore it can not be used to justify service of God in any way shape or form.

So your woman has to sacrifice a bird before being allowed back into your house after her period, you carry out repeated stonings and of course do not work on the Sabbath which of course is Saturday, Coz laws do not change not bitty bitty bit they don't.

Quote:That would be an example of evil men using God as an excuse to allow the evil in their hearts to play out, and hoping you are too stupid to know any better.

Evil men use religions to bend their followers to their will by claiming god or gods guidance all the time.

Quote:As are as being in contact with people, this is true. However the only way we have to discern who is speaking with us (ourselves/Delusion or Satan) is to take what is said and hold it up to scripture to make sure both jive with one another.

Men wrote the bible. So you are just following the prejudice of a rather intolerant age.

Quote:a 'spirit of light'/angel supposedly set up Islam and Mormonism. He was well dressed and inspired both 'prophets' to go off path of scripture. Jesus Himself warns us of this very thing.

People make up all sorts of shit don't they!

Post 627 addresses your objections here please take the time to read it and ask questions if you have them.

(March 4, 2016 at 11:18 am)Drich Wrote:

(March 3, 2016 at 9:01 pm)loganonekenobi Wrote: From my perspective there is no absolute on morality other than gravity works.  It appear to me that you believe that there is some form of absolute that we can follow.  It (the Bible) is not clear nor unfallable.

No.
There is a a standard in which righteousness is obtained. God set that standard because we are all playing in the existence he created. Thing is no one can live by that standard to ever earn righteousness. That is why we have been given the option of atonement. Atonement gives us the option to receive freely given righteousness of Christ.

Quote:https://michaelsherlockauthor.wordpress....stianity…/

If it is the shaky hand of man that writes these absolutes then there is no God authority that made these absolutes.  Which leads us back to just doing the best with what we have.

You probably wont change the opinion that the holy books are just man made so now we are left with attempting to see the present course of reality and make our best descion.

If you believe that homosexuality and pedophilia are on the same harm (to society) level then it will be near impossible for us to come to a compromise.

I would be arrogant to say that my thinking cannot be flawed but due to this understanding I am all to  aware that I should think and question the events in my life.  

I have not seen any clear guidance from a divine source. the only thing i have is my human guidence flawed and all.  I can admit that it may be flawed but the religious deny such flaw and I feel that is where a majority of mistakes are made when it comes to "pop morality".

Flaws are in the eye of the beholder.
I am not saying one can not find flaws. You can find flaws in a perfect diamond if you do not judge it by the standard in which diamonds are not typically judged. Or you can use this 'bizarrow'
standard to judge a diamond with heavy inclusions flawless.

Thats what morality is. It the standard that is not typically used to judged ourselves flawless.

God gets to sets a standard for us to follow, because He is the Father of creation. But the problem is God's standard is set so high we can not follow it. So He made a provision. Which should push an honest man to find another way/this provision (atonement) to obtain righteousness.

The key to understanding what is going on here is atonement requires repentance. (acknowledging sin, and turning your want and desire from it)

However rather than admitting this sin and repenting of it. Man develops 'morality.' Morality is a re working of God's standard to allow for the sins we judge tolerable/minor. God says It is always a sin to steal, Morality says it is ok to steal for a very good reason Eg.. Stealing to feed your starving baby. this way you can steal/sin and still be a 'good person.'

So rather than having one admit wrong doing, 'morality' allows one to justify their sin. Keeping them from the prospect of ever finding atonement.

Why is this important? with atonement one not only obtains the righteousness needed to enter heaven, it is not effected by our actions. We can neither do anything to earn righteousness or do anything to have it taken away. In essence we are free from the law/standard of God, so long as we do not lie to ourselves about our sin, and begin to harbor our sins as a point of pride or as a means to our self righteousness/morality. If we hold onto our sin through our 'moral behavior.' then we can never truly accept atonement because we through our feelings of 'morality' we will never repent.

So we then teach God's perfect standard to show that one can never live by it, and then move to substitute a life lived by judging actions against any standard, with absolute and complete freedom.

Do you understand what i have said here?

No judgement or harsh words. just looking to clarify.

atonement for what? sin? atonement from who the christian god? What standard? what is written in the bible? So far you have only confirmed my suspicion that, like most christians, you are only trying to convert me to your theistic veiw. I would prefer to actually think outside the box and see reality for what it is now so as to make positive changes
if you can do that then we can proceed.

(March 4, 2016 at 1:24 pm)Drich Wrote:

(March 4, 2016 at 1:00 pm)downbeatplumb Wrote: There has never been a standard of morality that hasn't changed. Lately it's been for the better because of the dropping of the biblical bits.


So your woman has to sacrifice a bird before being allowed back into your house after her period, you carry out repeated stonings and of course do not work on the Sabbath which of course is Saturday, Coz laws do not change not bitty bitty bit they don't.


Evil men use religions to bend their followers to their will by claiming god or gods guidance all the time.


Men wrote the bible. So you are just following the prejudice of a rather intolerant age.



People make up all sorts of shit don't they!

Post 627 addresses your objections here please take the time to read it and ask questions if you have them.

I read what you wrote, there were certainly some words there . But after consideration i reiterate what I said. There is no unwavering standard of morality and there never has been. You can waffle on about some fictional characters standard being immovable but that is not what we see even in the bibble, murder bad, but lets just kill everyone anyway and so it goes on. Also Jesus has a very different set of values to Yahweh and it is supposed to be the same person! I don't buy this immovable moral standard for a pico second.

(March 2, 2016 at 6:35 pm)

Quote:Actually no. I am teaching righteousness apart from Morality. I am teaching that our "acts" no longer have a "moral value" after we are saved. Wrote:

I am teaching the very opposite of morality. Don't confuse this with the teaching of the christian religion. alot of brands of christianity do indeed teach morality. However I represent the bible and not a specific brand. The bible/Christ and Paul teaches righteousness apart from our deeds. Meaning no morality.

Well, even if we were to both agree that the text in the Bible actually represented the true word of the universe's creator, you are exhibiting enormous conceit when you suggest that your words should be considered the correct interpretation of that text (even if only for the purpose of this interaction). That's a major barrier against having a meaningful conversation with you.

Quote:Actually what Christ taught was absolutely ground breaking in many aspects, and a call back to God's original word at the same time. Meaning he pointed to the original scriptures but explained it in such a ways as no one thought to take it before. He was popular only because people got fed and fixed around Him.

Yet it is still, by definition, pop morality. The idea of salvation is a very binary moral idea. It doesn't divide the good and the bad. I know that it doesn't mean saved people are necessarily good and that the unsaved are necessarily bad. However, there is a right and wrong, good and bad element in choosing salvation. To refuse salvation is considered a moral failing, a desire not to be more godly (which is a state equivocal with 'good').

(March 5, 2016 at 11:00 pm)Ryantology (╯°◊°)╯︵ ══╬ Wrote: Yet it is still, by definition, pop morality. The idea of salvation is a very binary moral idea. It doesn't divide the good and the bad. I know that it doesn't mean saved people are necessarily good and that the unsaved are necessarily bad. However, there is a right and wrong, good and bad element in choosing salvation. To refuse salvation is considered a moral failing, a desire not to be more godly (which is a state equivocal with 'good').

Depends on which god. From what I've read of YHWH, the less I can be like that guy, the more moral I'd consider myself.

The guy in the movies who's a big, powerful Alpha Male that runs everything and everyone he can intimidate/control into submission, and who tells subordinates to kill their children to prove they will obey... is usually the BadGuy™.

(ETA: In case it's not obvious, I'm referring to the Abraham and Isaac story in Genesis 22. The vicarious salvation of the boy via the ram is just as creepy.)

from what i have seen this is what comes of the "moral" teachings and atonement from the bible.

http://darcysheartstirrings.blogspot.co....story.html

I want you to understand that this is why there is a counter movement (at least in part) to the Christian authority of the Bible.

I cannot understand how this atonement of yours helps anyone when this abuse is the result.

Now if you could please, drop the Bible and actually do some thinking out side of culture about morality (which is what you are challenging us to do). Examples may include why breasts have to be covered or why in america women must shave or why a person cant act and be what ever gender makes them happy in life with out persecution?

Your solution would stifle all such thoughts. would they not?

(March 7, 2016 at 12:11 pm)loganonekenobi Wrote: from what i have seen this is what comes of the "moral" teachings and atonement from the bible.

http://darcysheartstirrings.blogspot.co....story.html

Ahhh.. No. this is Hate mail from someone who doesn't understand that 'original sin' is not a biblical precept, and can not separate religion from Christianity as described by the bible.

Quote:I want you to understand that this is why there is a counter movement (at least in part) to the Christian authority of the Bible.

If you were honest/thought about it for a moment, your hate mail example is only one of many examples as the reason why their is a countermovement. All centering around not wanting to be judged by God's righteousness, but a self imposed version of righteousness./morality.

Quote:I cannot understand how this atonement of yours helps anyone when this abuse is the result.

are you say their are no abuses in morality? Again everything the Nazi's did they thought to be 'moral.'

Quote:Now if you could please,  drop the Bible and actually do some thinking out side of culture about morality (which is what you are challenging us to do).  Examples may include why breasts have to be covered or why in america women must shave or why a person cant act and be what ever gender makes them happy in life with out persecution?

Your barking up the wrong tree sport, these are societal rules. No one follows them because the bible says yeah or nay about them.

Quote:Your solution would stifle all such thoughts. would they not?

nuupe.