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RE: You Can't Disprove a Miracle
March 10, 2016 at 11:54 am
(March 8, 2016 at 12:46 pm)Nymphadora Wrote: bold mine. For starters, it's "There" not "Their". 1) 'I've seen it both ways Your way and the right way.'
Quote:Now, for the rest of your post. The bible isn't proof of anything. And you know it.
By the very definition of the word it is indeed. It is just not accepted as 'proof' by everyone.
Quote:This has been argued to death with you and yet, you still refuse to accept that.
You are still at best a noob and haven't argued anything. If you wish to then please provide your strong (cut and paste) case.
Quote: The bible is a piece of literature that was written by man from copies of copies of copies of manuscripts that were NOT original.
That's not valid statement.
Quote: How can you still continue to believe that the bible is any sort of proof of a god?
Because the bible says do XYZ and God will 123. I did XYZ and received 123.
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RE: You Can't Disprove a Miracle
March 10, 2016 at 11:58 am
(March 8, 2016 at 5:41 pm)Crossless1 Wrote: Wait, if we can't find a Biblical precedent for Constantine's "vision" then doesn't it follow that the subsequent making of Christianity the official Roman state religion under Theodosius I (not to mention the Council of Nicene and the settlement of what constitutes "The Bible) is bogus? And if that's bogus, doesn't it follow that the Protestant Reformation (of which Drich is a latter-day descendant) is also bogus?
ThEIr are several different precedents for visions. Content will determine whether or not the vision is from God.
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RE: You Can't Disprove a Miracle
March 10, 2016 at 12:28 pm
(This post was last modified: March 10, 2016 at 12:30 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
Is that what Abraham did when he suddenly found himself having a miraculous conversation with the divine over killing his son, checked for the chapter and verse? Strange, I don't recall that part of the story..way I remember it, just said "zug zug" and grabbed the knife. He hit the sack, made ready to travel the next morning, lied to his servants, lied to his son, and then, like a full court shot with 2 seconds remaining, an angel intervened in the whole sorry affair. At what point did -he- refer to chapter or verse......and this, I suppose, is when I ask -you- to find a chapter and verse for your little miracle verification scheme.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: You Can't Disprove a Miracle
March 10, 2016 at 12:42 pm
Oh, I see we're drifting into visions territory again. Maybe we could open a thread for theist hearsay, visions and the supernatural, so they can have at each others throats.
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RE: You Can't Disprove a Miracle
March 10, 2016 at 12:56 pm
(March 10, 2016 at 12:28 pm)Rhythm Wrote: Is that what Abraham did when he suddenly found himself having a miraculous conversation with the divine over killing his son, checked for the chapter and verse? Strange, I don't recall that part of the story..way I remember it, just said "zug zug" and grabbed the knife. He hit the sack, made ready to travel the next morning, lied to his servants, lied to his son, and then, like a full court shot with 2 seconds remaining, an angel intervened in the whole sorry affair. At what point did -he- refer to chapter or verse......and this, I suppose, is when I ask -you- to find a chapter and verse for your little miracle verification scheme.
I'm sorry I did not realize you lived in a nexus of time and space and I was communicating to you from 5000 years in your future.
I say this because anyone with a modicum of common sense and living in 2016 would see Abraham was the precedent and helped set the rule therefore would not be subject to it. So when the statement is made 'we can not confirm or deny a miracle' it can be accurately refuted with pointing to the precedents set fourth by scripture/men like him. Because again the bible records the pattern of interaction between God and man which are recorded from the experiences men like Abraham went though. Why do we look to the experiences of Abraham and the like? because our goal is to worship the same God he/they worshiped, so it is to the set standard chose to interact with them that we too must look for.
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RE: You Can't Disprove a Miracle
March 10, 2016 at 12:58 pm
(March 10, 2016 at 12:42 pm)abaris Wrote: Oh, I see we're drifting into visions territory again. Maybe we could open a thread for theist hearsay, visions and the supernatural, so they can have at each others throats.
Again, Validation of a vision come though the message delivered in the vision when compared to what the bible actually says. We are told in scripture that a Vision from God will never contradict His word/Bible.
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RE: You Can't Disprove a Miracle
March 10, 2016 at 1:01 pm
(This post was last modified: March 10, 2016 at 1:02 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
I see, so your advice applies except when it doesn't? I assume then, that if god deigned to come up with a miracle that did not have precedent....the thing to do, what you would do, would be to consider it "not a miracle", or "not from god"?
How is your means of verification supposed to be useful again? Still waiting on chapter and verse.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: You Can't Disprove a Miracle
March 10, 2016 at 1:02 pm
Drich, can you tell us specifically what the bible told you to do and then how it came through for you afterward?
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RE: You Can't Disprove a Miracle
March 10, 2016 at 1:23 pm
(This post was last modified: March 10, 2016 at 1:24 pm by abaris.)
(March 10, 2016 at 12:58 pm)Drich Wrote: Again, Validation of a vision come though the message delivered in the vision when compared to what the bible actually says. We are told in scripture that a Vision from God will never contradict His word/Bible.
I never did LSD, so I can't speak about visions from personal experience. But I know some who did. And then there are always those, whose visions tell them to kill someone. Usually by the god of their choice. Sane people call them schicophreniacs. Maybe inspired by the bible, maybe by the Qran. Last happened in Russia with a dead kid as a result.
I'm sure this is very much in accordance with the occasional horror show you find in all the holy books. So it rises up to what the book actually says.
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RE: You Can't Disprove a Miracle
March 10, 2016 at 1:27 pm
(This post was last modified: March 10, 2016 at 1:30 pm by Divinity.)
How do we know Abraham wasn't just some nutjob who had voices in his head telling him to kill his son. Then some pedestrian comes along and tells him not to do it. He thinks it's an Angel, and the rest was fucking history. That Pedestrian had no idea he set forth a goddamn religion. "The Bible!" doesn't work because people at that time wouldn't have had the Torah to guide them. Maybe Moses decided to get in on the God racket, and now millions of people worship the voices in Abraham's head.
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