You have to jump to 34:30.  I tried to set it to do that automatically but I'm not sure if it's working.

I usually like to call in to Matt Slick's show (if you don't know who he is, here's a hilarious clip from the Daily Show; the video comes along with an article about his daughter losing her faith) and have a go with his massive ego but something tells me that he'll hang up on me if I tell him that Christianity is a religion based on the notions of blood sacrifice proposed in the Old Testament by racist, sexist, genocidal, slave-driving rapists. So I just had a few things I wanted to get off my chest and thought it would be nice to chat with atheists for once. I knew atheists get lowest priority for getting on the atheist experience because they want to wrestle with theists so I decided to call in way early on the daylight savings day hoping other people were calling in at the wrong time, lol.

Awesome! I'm crazy jealous

Great phone call You raised excellent points.

I always like to remind everyone, we mainly debate Christianity because that is what we deal with the most in the west.

It still remains that EVERY religion starts at the top as an Umbrella label, under which there are countless sub sects with different ideas of how to live that religion and interpret it's writings. Every single religion also point to the motifs and stories that depict acts of kindness and charity, they all have their own versions.  But there has never been or ever will be a perfect religion that is unifying, even within it's sub sects.

I is also why I highly recommend Victor Stenger's book "The New Atheism" in which later chapters he points out all the overlapping motifs of the word's major religions. He does this to point out to us that we need to consider that our morality as a species is not in the books themselves, but in our evolution.

Not even the word "atheist" should be treated as a moral code. I have run into atheists I do not agree with on such issues as economic views, guns or how to deal with theists. Not even we should think of ourselves as sheep. Humans will always form groups and on a planet of 7 billion, there is no such thing as a utopia, for anyone.

But, while human rights are a given, the claim itself should never be scrutiny or blasphemy free.

that reminds me that it's been a loooooong time since I watched TAE...

I think I've seen two episodes since they moved to the ACA library

(March 16, 2016 at 4:13 pm)Clueless Morgan Wrote: that reminds me that it's been a loooooong time since I watched TAE...  

I think I've seen two episodes since they moved to the ACA library

I stopped a long time ago too, for a lot of reasons, but primarily because it turned into an echo chamber with almost entirely atheist callers.

I was thinking about what you said, and you're right. If I really believed this life was a temporary test deciding my eternal future, and I decided to take that seriously, then I'd do everything I could to ensure I won. Everything. This life simply wouldn't matter at all, no matter how bad, compared to an eternity of badness.

So at the very least, I'd follow what Jesus said as much as I could, as well as Paul, as well as Yahweh... I'd try and cover all my bases. I'd live like a pauper. I wouldn't bank on "oh Jesus was probably joking/wrong/doesn't apply now/parable".

This makes me think the people who so easily dismiss Jesus' (supposed) exact words aren't taking it very seriously at all. They're doing what they would do anyway, and lining this up with bits of the bible and telling themselves it's enough to get into heaven.

No one ever thinks they're not doing enough, do they? Except perhaps the people who kill themselves because they think God hates them, and find life unbearable. Yes, this really happens. Or the people who kill themselves to go straight to heaven; yes, this really happens too. Religion is so dangerous.

David, you're in Temecula? I'm in Carlsbad

(March 18, 2016 at 8:17 am)robvalue Wrote: I was thinking about what you said, and you're right. If I really believed this life was a temporary test deciding my eternal future, and I decided to take that seriously, then I'd do everything I could to ensure I won. Everything. This life simply wouldn't matter at all, no matter how bad, compared to an eternity of badness.

So at the very least, I'd follow what Jesus said as much as I could, as well as Paul, as well as Yahweh... I'd try and cover all my bases. I'd live like a pauper. I wouldn't bank on "oh Jesus was probably joking/wrong/doesn't apply now/parable".

Yep. And technically speaking, it's actually not difficult to sell all your shit and give the money away. I mean, in one sense it'd be the hardest thing you'd ever done, but if you REALLY believed in Jesus, the only difficulty would be in just camping on your lawn all Saturday selling your stuff in your garage sale. Or you could just go to skidrow and give your stuff away, same difference. Not actually hard.

I can understand Christians not being perfect. What I can't understand is their excuse for not even TRYING. Because if you own a TV while children are starving, and you're a Christian, you're simply not trying. Period.

Any Christian who pulls that shit saying gays this or gays that, I tell ask them if they own a TV, then I ask if they are aware that children are starving to death, and then I tell them that they are living in a deliberate, perpetual state of sin no different from homosexuals.

Quote:This makes me think the people who so easily dismiss Jesus' (supposed) exact words aren't taking it very seriously at all. They're doing what they would do anyway, and lining this up with bits of the bible and telling themselves it's enough to get into heaven.

I'm thinking about making two lists, one list being the things that Jesus said which Christians live by, and you can guess the other list. You can also guess which list will be longer.

Quote:No one ever thinks they're not doing enough, do they? Except perhaps the people who kill themselves because they think God hates them, and find life unbearable. Yes, this really happens. Or the people who kill themselves to go straight to heaven; yes, this really happens too. Religion is so dangerous.

If a Christian isn't trying his hardest, he simply doesn't give a shit about his bullshit religion.

(March 18, 2016 at 9:04 am)The_Empress Wrote: David, you're in Temecula? I'm in Carlsbad

Awesome

I sometimes forget Temecula is even noticeable to anyone else. We started so small.

I listen to the podcast version every week. I enjoyed your phone call. I'd like to offer some counter points from a JW perspective

1. Jesus was specifically telling that one man what HE needed to do. We don't know if Jesus saw something in him specifically but the end result is that the guy couldn't do it because he had a lot of possessions. So you could draw and absolutist lesson from this, that we should all sell our possessions and give to the needy. Or you could draw the conclusion I did from this account, am I a master or a slave to my worldly possessions?

2. Jesus didn't have hard standards in regards to possessions. Often times, atheists make hard boundaries based off of scriptures. Like Matt and you did from that specific account of Jesus. But think of the time when Mary used a very expensive oil on Jesus feet. The apostles reactions were of disgust. Even specifically saying that she should have donated the money to the needy. But Jesus rebuked them for this hard line they drew. This demonstrates that Jesus didn't advocate or require ALL of his followers to live certain lifestyle of absolute altruism and rejection of material possessions.

3. Paul doesn't have a radically different view from Jesus that christians base their practices off of. This was more of Matt's point, but consider that Paul (if you take him at his word) could have had an illustrious career but chose to make tents. He did this to allow him to preach more. He also warned that the LOVE of money is the root of all evil. He never said money was the root of all evil, as is often misstated. I don't know what Matt was referring to that was radically different from Jesus views on giving, money, and having possessions. Maybe it was the scripture where Paul said that he who does not work does not eat. I would agree that some Christians use that single scripture to justify cutting foodstamps and welfare. But in general, Paul assisted and led efforts to give to the needy and poor.

So I would definitely say that many christians don't have a chris like view towards needy and poor. But Jesus never said that it was an absolute requirement to sell all of your possessions and give them away. Think of the paradox, if I gave all of my worldly possessions away to needy ones, then that would mean the receivers would now have more than me. Would that mean that they would now have to give away what was given in order to attain salvation? I don't think so