Choosing any religion over any other religion always struck me as rather like choosing athlete's foot over jock itch: You've still got a disease that makes it hard to concentrate on the real world.

Boru

The issue to me, the Imammate of the family of Mohammad is of the most obvious issues in Quran. The fact people can't perceive their status, their rank, the wisdom of their role, and the position that was meant for them to have, convinces me more then anything else that Quran is from God.

This is because to me, nothing can explain it, but that which itself explains, that there are dark sinister forces and sorcery on the hearts, that try to keep from seeing the position of the 12 Imams.

That there is a dark force and that this is rationally best explained by the fact they are the Guides meant for us to follow and that sinister forces try to keep people from the path.

(April 17, 2016 at 8:18 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: The issue to me, the Imammate of the family of Mohammad is of the most obvious issues in Quran. The fact people can't perceive their status, their rank, the wisdom of their role, and the position that was meant for them to have, convinces me more then anything else that Quran is from God.

This is because to me, nothing can explain it, but that which itself explains, that there are dark sinister forces and sorcery on the hearts, that try to keep from seeing the position of the 12 Imams.

That there is a dark force and that this is rationally best explained by the fact they are the Guides meant for us to follow and that sinister forces try to keep people from the path.

I'm given to understand that there are powders and ointments that can help you with that.

Boru

Oh dear. Dark sinister forces.

We covered this before. It states in Surah 2 that Allah himself decides who will and who won't believe. You are worshipping the dark forces.

Of course, the book later contradicts itself as well.

(April 18, 2016 at 1:40 am)robvalue Wrote: Oh dear. Dark sinister forces.

We covered this before. It states in Surah 2 that Allah himself decides who will and who won't believe. You are worshipping the dark forces.

Of course, the book later contradicts itself as well.

This is how the concept goes; you live within God's context; i.e inside his domain of creation. Thus, he created light and darkness.
In other words, he "created evil". Made it from scratch. Though, he never orders you to carry on evil, he always orders you to carry on the good deeds.

So, when you disbelieve, it is him who allowed it to happen. when you believe it is also him who allowed it.
Though, you shouldn't neglect the brain you have. We are not "stones" or "an it", we are he and she; rob. We have brains. So it's not contradictory at all to say that x is an atheist by his own free will, yet God allowed to happen, yet God did indeed order him to believe and do the good deeds.

That's the concept; nothing contradicts itself, its how the cycle goes.

But to claim you're a chosen one? a pure breed that is guided since birth? and accuse who goes against you, of being demonically possessed? Now that I call "excusing yourself from all your mistakes". That's why the mainstream Islam does indeed teach its followers to never question themselves; they're going to heaven anyways, right?

I have to say, God is a scary figure. So scary. But us, our souls, are not that pure. 
About that dark influence, I mean weirdly enough the Quran says this:

Sura 14
( 22 )   And Satan will say when the matter has been concluded, "Indeed, Allah had promised you the promise of truth. And I promised you, but I betrayed you. But I had no authority over you except that I invited you, and you responded to me. So do not blame me; but blame yourselves. I cannot be called to your aid, nor can you be called to my aid. Indeed, I deny your association of me [with Allah] before. Indeed, for the wrongdoers is a painful punishment."


Dark influence? I would rather say "ultimate narcissism" and "insane self-love".

Who the hell is "Ahlo Bayt" to come rule me with a sword from Iran, and accuse me of being demonically possessed if I say no? under the banner of tribalism ?
Oh hell, then I'm Satan himself.

Boru

Mmmmm, athlete foot's pickles dipped in cat's litter box.

Yeah... except that's not what it says in Surah 2. You're interpreting it to mean the opposite of what it says.

If God wrote this book, I really shouldn't need any help understanding it.

(April 18, 2016 at 5:19 am)robvalue Wrote: Yeah... except that's not what it says in Surah 2. You're interpreting it to mean the opposite of what it says.

If God wrote this book, I really shouldn't need any help understanding it.

This cuts to the claim of this alleged god being "all powerful" and "all loving"...

If this god is all powerful why set things up to be confusing for your followers? And especially if he is all loving, why allow so much confusion as to having your followers frustrated and tortured mentally by the confusion of others? And not just mere confusion, in far too many cases fighting to the death over the interpretation of that book.

But Christianity and Jewish religions have the same problems. Seems to me daddy is inept or malicious or he doesn't exist.

Yeah. He wants us to be confused, or this is the best he can do.