(April 19, 2016 at 11:47 am)Hoppingbunny Wrote: And do you seriously believe that the Crusades were completely unprovoked by Muslims anyway?

Pretty much was, Jerusalem was captured 400 years prior from the ERE, who the popes thought were almost as bad as muslims, for refusing their authority. The stated reason, a Mamlike ruler who, in his insanity, started killing pilgrims by the boatload had been killed 50 years by 1090 by his own people, partly because of the damage he did to tourism, and normal pilgramage rules resumed.

The pope at the time used Jerusalem as a focus for the beligerent catholic rulers because he wanted them to stop killing each other, and the only possibility for that was holy war with the prospect of lots of loot and new lands to rule.

Correct, Cons, and as noted above, the muslims would have been oppressing heretics as far as then-pope fuckface was concerned and the catholicks were no slouches themselves when it came to oppressing heretics.

Just a political opportunity for the church to re-direct the quarrelsome and violent xtian nobility to another purpose and stop their escapades in Europe.

(April 21, 2016 at 3:18 pm)paulpablo Wrote: So why does the quran say confine them to a house?  (keep or restrict someone or something within certain limits of space, scope, or time).  Is the definition.

I realize it's totally justifiable to believe it might mean confine them and feed them I can see that now, the language is bit morbid but logically I can see it doesn't say starve them. 

besides, confining them isn't a punishment for not accepting the religion.  They may have excepted the religion, become tempted, cheated on their husband.  Now according to the quran it gives the husband the right to confine the woman to the house until she dies.  Or unless Allah provides a way out for her, which to me, as an atheist, would be like waiting for the unicorn to kick down the door and let her break free from the house.

Obviously, it is saying "confine them" so we "confine them".. That's the price for purification, we -Muslims- must stand as each others' guardians and allies, males and female, just like in this verse:

Sura 9
( 71 )   The believing men and believing women are allies of one another. They enjoin what is right and forbid what is wrong and establish prayer and give zakah and obey Allah and His Messenger. Those - Allah will have mercy upon them. Indeed, Allah is Exalted in Might and Wise.

So, what is more lovely than a Muslim brother/sister, that stands against me when I do wrong? 
Indeed they should confine that sinner..if he/she doesn't like it, then Sura 2 verse 256 should be considered : there is no compulsion in religion indeed. Leave.  But don't cry in the day of resurrection !!

A Muslim must believe; Paul. No compulsion, because what's the point? it's all about the afterlife, and it's all about escaping hell, indeed we Muslims must become each others' allies, executing the laws of Islam on each other and support each other; it's a personal choice, and anybody who wants out can go out, according to Sura 2 verse 256.

Heh, "A Muslim must believe" followed by "no compulsion."

(April 22, 2016 at 12:43 pm)FatAndFaithless Wrote: Heh, "A Muslim must believe" followed by "no compulsion."

Hey KFC. I want one mighty zinger, upsize.
It's just like saying "a guitar player must use a pick to achieve perfect strumming", or "a student of physics must learn how to read first".

(April 22, 2016 at 10:04 am)Drich Wrote: people know Islam is a hair to the left of outright evil, they are just afraid to say anything. Because the rest of the world has not condemned it yet.

The Evil in the world protects the evil in religion. It attacks anything that opposes or simply stands in contrast to said evil.

Ze Muzlimz !
We will stand with the anti-christ, right? I mean, the antichrist gotta be a Muzlim...the beast with seven heads, 666, it means:
Muslim Muslim Muslim !!!

Who invaded Rome?? 
Muzlims !

Who started WW2?
Muzlims !

How do germs infect humans??
Muzlims !

Why do people go to bed at night?
Muzlims !

Why do we dream?
Duuuuuhhh, Muzlims !!!

(April 22, 2016 at 12:41 pm)AtlasS33 Wrote:

(April 21, 2016 at 3:18 pm)paulpablo Wrote: So why does the quran say confine them to a house?  (keep or restrict someone or something within certain limits of space, scope, or time).  Is the definition.

I realize it's totally justifiable to believe it might mean confine them and feed them I can see that now, the language is bit morbid but logically I can see it doesn't say starve them. 

besides, confining them isn't a punishment for not accepting the religion.  They may have excepted the religion, become tempted, cheated on their husband.  Now according to the quran it gives the husband the right to confine the woman to the house until she dies.  Or unless Allah provides a way out for her, which to me, as an atheist, would be like waiting for the unicorn to kick down the door and let her break free from the house.

Obviously, it is saying "confine them" so we "confine them".. That's the price for purification, we -Muslims- must stand as each others' guardians and allies, males and female, just like in this verse:

Sura 9
( 71 )   The believing men and believing women are allies of one another. They enjoin what is right and forbid what is wrong and establish prayer and give zakah and obey Allah and His Messenger. Those - Allah will have mercy upon them. Indeed, Allah is Exalted in Might and Wise.

So, what is more lovely than a Muslim brother/sister, that stands against me when I do wrong? 
Indeed they should confine that sinner..if he/she doesn't like it, then Sura 2 verse 256 should be considered : there is no compulsion in religion indeed. Leave.  But don't cry in the day of resurrection !!

A Muslim must believe; Paul. No compulsion, because what's the point? it's all about the afterlife, and it's all about escaping hell, indeed we Muslims must become each others' allies, executing the laws of Islam on each other and support each other; it's a personal choice, and anybody who wants out can go out, according to Sura 2 verse 256.

So there's a Muslim's wife who cheats.  She's confined to a house but then says she's no longer Muslim.  You have to follow the quran still and confine her to that house until death overtakes her?  Is that correct?  Or is only Muslim women who have to be house bound until death when they cheat?  Either way what I'm saying is that this verse would be considered not to be peaceful by today's standards.

(April 22, 2016 at 2:04 pm)paulpablo Wrote: So there's a Muslim's wife who cheats.  She's confined to a house but then says she's no longer Muslim.  You have to follow the quran still and confine her to that house until death overtakes her?  Is that correct?  Or is only Muslim women who have to be house bound until death when they cheat?  Either way what I'm saying is that this verse would be considered not to be peaceful by today's standards.

If she goes out of the faith, that's her own business. But once she says no, and decides to leave Islam, verse 256 in Sura 2 must be executed; thus the confinement sentence -because of Sura 2 verse 256- becomes not valid, since compulsion in religion is not legal and forbidden.

I'm dead sure that some secret societies carry on more harsh punishments; it's not real democracy and freedom if "adult" and "grown up" people couldn't live together and do what they want; what they "choose" to do. Actually, that's the main reason why we need a society of our own; something that doesn't exist today, Muslims forgot their ways, abandoned their holy book, it's the age of the Hadith, age of forgery and religious bigotry.

I personally consider "anal fisting" not to be very peaceful too -it can lead to anus rupture- but it is, as it looks: a personal choice.
Some people with BDSM fetishes agree to be slaves; too, under a mistress. Get tied up, beaten, abused, get cigarettes burned on their skins, get pissed on, they even pay for it. and some remain in something called "chasity"..I'll stop here.

The "mistress" can force upon you a set of rules, some even "strangle you while jerking you off" for it is said to be extremely pleasurable. You might die. You stand below her feet because "you want to". It's a personal choice. You will "fight" if somebody tried to take your mistress away from you.

But Muslims are not allowed to have an opposite fun of their own?

"Why do people on here act as if Islam if no worse than any other faith?"

Anyone who spent any amount of time perusing the Islam forum here would know what an ill-informed question this is.

(April 22, 2016 at 2:57 pm)AtlasS33 Wrote:

(April 22, 2016 at 2:04 pm)paulpablo Wrote: So there's a Muslim's wife who cheats.  She's confined to a house but then says she's no longer Muslim.  You have to follow the quran still and confine her to that house until death overtakes her?  Is that correct?  Or is only Muslim women who have to be house bound until death when they cheat?  Either way what I'm saying is that this verse would be considered not to be peaceful by today's standards.

If she goes out of the faith, that's her own business. But once she says no, and decides to leave Islam, verse 256 in Sura 2 must be executed; thus the confinement sentence -because of Sura 2 verse 256- becomes not valid, since compulsion in religion is not legal and forbidden.

I'm dead sure that some secret societies carry on more harsh punishments; it's not real democracy and freedom if "adult" and "grown up" people couldn't live together and do what they want; what they "choose" to do. Actually, that's the main reason why we need a society of our own; something that doesn't exist today, Muslims forgot their ways, abandoned their holy book, it's the age of the Hadith, age of forgery and religious bigotry.

I personally consider "anal fisting" not to be very peaceful too -it can lead to anus rupture- but it is, as it looks: a personal choice.
Some people with BDSM fetishes agree to be slaves; too, under a mistress. Get tied up, beaten, abused, get cigarettes burned on their skins, get pissed on, they even pay for it. and some remain in something called "chasity"..I'll stop here.

The "mistress" can force upon you a set of rules, some even "strangle you while jerking you off" for it is said to be extremely pleasurable. You might die. You stand below her feet because "you want to". It's a personal choice. You will "fight" if somebody tried to take your mistress away from you.

But Muslims are not allowed to have an opposite fun of their own?

I admire the comparison of being a Muslim to volunteering to be violently anally fisted, that's quite a good analolgy.
I still think she would have to remain confined because it says confine her until death, if she's a Muslim or not a Muslim. It also says no compulsion in religion but not that you can just give up being a Muslim whenever you don't want to face the consequences of Islamic law