(June 17, 2016 at 8:06 pm)Simon Moon Wrote:

(June 17, 2016 at 7:49 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: Some things I've often wondered about Christ's death:

1.  Why was the sacrifice of God incarnate even necessary?  God could simply have said, 'Ok, humans, here's the deal - love me big bunches and you'll get to go to heaven.  Don't love me and you get punished.'

I've asked a similar question to Thomas Kelly several times already. He's responded to other points in my posts, but conveniently ignores that one. 

To reiterate, why did "God" need the sacrifice at all?

It's his universe, his rules, why not just forgive humanity?

There are no actual gods of any kind in this solar system.  But there are billions of stupid people.  Why did people throw virgins into volcanoes in an attempt to stop them from erupting?  The twits in the Middle East became experts at sacrificing their kids for one stupid reason or another.  That's what stupid people do.

It is becoming an all too common fact that religion makes people utterly stupid. How common, however, is still not common enough for a change that will take place long after I am dead.

(June 20, 2016 at 1:21 am)robvalue Wrote:

(June 19, 2016 at 4:42 pm)Ignorant Wrote: Sadly, all I can say to this is you are right. The Church will have much to answer for.

Are you against indoctrinating children into religion?

I am against terrifying children with hell as a negative incentive to "love" God, and too many of us do this. I am also against using this as a way to manipulate children into strict and blind obedience to parents. It doesn't tend to work out very well.

I'm very glad to hear that

Do you still think it's okay to teach religious belief as fact to young children, if it doesn't involve scaring them?

(June 17, 2016 at 11:30 am)madog Wrote: Do Christians worship a suicide victim?

Umm hello? Haven't you heard of saints - aka people that died for Christianity? For instance St. Theodore of Amasea Surnamed Tyro was killed and arrested because he set fire to the temple of some Roman god and there are many saints like him. So yeah Christians do worship and venerate suicide terrorists a lot.

Killed and arrested? Those are some paranoid police

(June 20, 2016 at 4:44 am)robvalue Wrote: Killed and arrested? Those are some paranoid police

you tell me, don't you come from a country that dug up corpse of Oliver Cromwell to be posthumously executed?

Yes.

Three hundred and fifty years ago.

(June 20, 2016 at 4:20 am)robvalue Wrote: I'm very glad to hear that

Do you still think it's okay to teach religious belief as fact to young children, if it doesn't involve scaring them?

That would depend on the religious belief being taught. Clearly, as a Catholic, I think teaching children some religious beliefs is an ok thing to do.

(June 19, 2016 at 4:30 pm)Ignorant Wrote:

(June 19, 2016 at 10:18 am)madog Wrote: Laying down his own life purposefully is suicide ...  [1]
 

1) Something tells me you're not open to a discussion on this point...

 

{1}  Many people mistakenly take their own life (lay down) thinking their children will be better off ... I don't consider that as a sacrifice but suicide ..... 

Freely going into a situation with fore knowledge that it will kill you is still suicide, if there is another option.... A train may have killed you but putting yourself in a position where it will hit you is suicide ....

I will answer your points in separate posts as you just keep adding stuff that wasn't anything to do with the original post 


another option Look anyone considering using examples such as jumping on a grenade ... when there is no other option that is sacrifice ... if you could have just pulled the pin out that is suicide .... 

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(June 19, 2016 at 4:30 pm)Ignorant Wrote:

(June 19, 2016 at 10:18 am)madog Wrote:  

3) You are trying to use apostles to prove "Jesus the son of God", without a "Jesus" there are no apostles [2]

 

2) How many times am I going to have to tell you this: No, I am not trying to prove that Jesus is the son of God. <= Read that again. Then re-read these:
 

You brought in apostles and the apostolic history ......  The apostles are primary the 12 disciples of "Jesus the son of God", unless you mean them in another way? .......   
Just using the apostles as proof of anything is an attempt to prove Jesus is the son of God ... If their was no Jesus son of God their would be no apostles 

I'll get around to the rest of your reply when I can ....