Before anyone plays the next bigot card, the reason it's bigoted is because you're basing it on your own issues only. It's not the same as expecting a pedophile to "deny" their nature by not abusing young children. There is real, obvious demonstrable harm at stake. It makes me sick anyone would try and compare the two, to deflect from their bigotry.

It's particularly hypocritical for Christians, because not only are the mentions of man/man sex being a "sin" infrequent:

(A) They are in the Old Testemant, which many Christians spend so long trying to distance themselves from. They'll happily ignore all the other hundreds of things the Old Testament rants about.

(B) They say the proper response is to put the men to death. Not to try and make their lives miserable as the next best thing.

Also, if the problem is just "it's a sin", then so what? Every fucking thing is a sin according to the bible. Why does that require the Christian to intervene? God is that easily upset that you have to run round trying to play goalie on peoples' arses? Of course, this will often be conflated with immorality, to suggest there's something actually wrong further than arbitrary divine rules.

(July 3, 2016 at 2:09 am)robvalue Wrote: Before anyone plays the next bigot card, the reason it's bigoted is because you're basing it on your own issues only. It's not the same as expecting a pedophile to "deny" their nature by not abusing young children. There is real, obvious demonstrable harm at stake. It makes me sick anyone would try and compare the two, to deflect from their bigotry.

It's particularly hypocritical for Christians, because not only are the mentions of man/man sex being a "sin" infrequent:

(A) They are in the Old Testemant, which many Christians spend so long trying to distance themselves from. They'll happily ignore all the other hundreds of things the Old Testament rants about.

(B) They say the proper response is to put the men to death. Not to try and make their lives miserable as the next best thing.

Also, if the problem is just "it's a sin", then so what? Every fucking thing is a sin according to the bible. Why does that require the Christian to intervene? God is that easily upset that you have to run round trying to play goalie on peoples' arses? Of course, this will often be conflated with immorality, to suggest there's something actually wrong further than arbitrary divine rules.

The New Testament is anti-gay also. Jesus never said anything on the subject, but Paul did several times I believe. Here's one:

Romans 1:27

I like his "natural use of a woman" phrase. Very progressive, Paul.

(July 3, 2016 at 1:31 am)robvalue Wrote: Just to be clear, you don't have to like gay sex. You don't have to find the idea comfortable even. Maybe you don't even want to hear about it, or think about it. That's up to you.

But the moment you promote a stance that there is actually something wrong with it, further to your own personal discomfort, you are a bigot. You're encouraging people to find real fault with such actions.

You say I'm a bigot because I think there is something with homosexual sex?  That's Crazy.  That means I'm a huge bigot because I also believe that having sex outside of marriage is wrong.  I also think that drunkenness is wrong.  And I believe Democrats are wrong most of the time.  That makes me a super bigot.  By the way, you're a bigot too because you think that theism is wrong.  Your'e promoting a stance that makes people think that there is something wrong with it.  That's the usual response to anyone who believe that homosexual acts are wrong.  Just label them a bigot.

As far as homosexuality being a natural inclination, christians must daily go against their natural inclinations as do most non-christian people.

(July 3, 2016 at 12:36 pm)Lek Wrote:

(July 3, 2016 at 1:31 am)robvalue Wrote: Just to be clear, you don't have to like gay sex. You don't have to find the idea comfortable even. Maybe you don't even want to hear about it, or think about it. That's up to you.

But the moment you promote a stance that there is actually something wrong with it, further to your own personal discomfort, you are a bigot. You're encouraging people to find real fault with such actions.

You say I'm a bigot because I think there is something with homosexual sex?  That's Crazy.  That means I'm a huge bigot because I also believe that having sex outside of marriage is wrong.  I also think that drunkenness is wrong.  And I believe Democrats are wrong most of the time.  That makes me a super bigot.  By the way, you're a bigot too because you think that theism is wrong.  Your'e promoting a stance that makes people think that there is something wrong with it.  That's the usual response to anyone who believe that homosexual acts are wrong.  Just label them a bigot.

As far as homosexuality being a natural inclination, christians must daily go against their natural inclinations as do most non-christian people.

Fallacy of equivocation.

Christians view homosexuality as wrong. Wrong as in evil.

Atheists view theism as wrong. Wrong as in incorrect.

Tell us more about how we're bigots, please.

I long for the day when adults stop letting their imaginary friends make ethical decisions for them.

Just me, but if my mother, and her evil sisters, made claims like that when I was about to visit them I'd dress like this on the visit:

(July 3, 2016 at 4:16 pm)KevinM1 Wrote: I long for the day when adults stop letting their imaginary friends make ethical decisions for them.

I think most of us do.

(July 3, 2016 at 4:01 pm)Nihilist Virus Wrote:

(July 3, 2016 at 12:36 pm)Lek Wrote: You say I'm a bigot because I think there is something with homosexual sex?  That's Crazy.  That means I'm a huge bigot because I also believe that having sex outside of marriage is wrong.  I also think that drunkenness is wrong.  And I believe Democrats are wrong most of the time.  That makes me a super bigot.  By the way, you're a bigot too because you think that theism is wrong.  Your'e promoting a stance that makes people think that there is something wrong with it.  That's the usual response to anyone who believe that homosexual acts are wrong.  Just label them a bigot.

As far as homosexuality being a natural inclination, christians must daily go against their natural inclinations as do most non-christian people.

Christians view homosexuality as wrong.  Wrong as in evil.

Atheists view theism as wrong.  Wrong as in incorrect.

Tell us more about how we're bigots, please.


Fallacy of equivocation.

First of all, read the threads on this forum and tell me atheists don't believe that theism is evil. Secondly, christianity doesn't teach that homosexuality is evil. Christianity teaches that homosexual relations are evil. Christianity doesn't teach that heterosexual relations are evil, but that they are evil if performed outside of the married state. Christianity does not recognize a union between partners of the same sex as a marriage. Christians who are not married are called to be celibate, as are homosexual christians. If a christian is having sex outside of marriage they are committing an evil act.

Science has come to the conclusion that the tendency for homosexuality, pedaphilia and alcoholism are innate. Does that mean that if I think the actions stemming from these tendencies are evil then I am a bigot? no. Of course not.

(July 3, 2016 at 4:32 pm)Lek Wrote: First of all, read the threads on this forum and tell me atheists don't believe that theism is evil.

Theism is not evil. It's stupid. That's my take and the take of the majority of the people here.

Quote:Secondly, christianity doesn't teach that homosexuality is evil.

That is a lie. Romans 1:27 says,

"In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error." (NIV)

"And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet." (KJV)

Also, Jesus said that if you lust for a woman in your heart then you're guilty of adultery (Matthew 5:28). The obvious implication is that if you lust for a man in your heart then you're guilty of homosexuality.

If your claim is that it is not sinful to have homosexual urges but rather that it is sinful to act on them, then you are a liar. My quest for finding an honest apologist continues.

Quote:Christianity teaches that homosexual relations are evil.

Correct. And why do you not see the problem with that? How do you not see that as bigoted?

Quote:Christianity doesn't teach that heterosexual relations are evil, but that they are evil if performed outside of the married state.

Irrelevant. We're talking about homosexuality.

Quote:Christianity does not recognize a union between partners of the same sex as a marriage.

I know, that's because Christianity is full of bigots.

Quote:Christians who are not married are called to be celibate, as are homosexual christians.

So you are saying that if you were raised Christian, and hit puberty as a Christian, then you should not get married? The only way a Christian should be married is if they were an unbeliever and then converted after already being married?

Quote:If a christian is having sex outside of marriage they are committing an evil act.

Elaborate on what you mean by "evil."

Here's my definition:

Evil: to willfully cause harm to another.

I think this is your definition:

Evil: to willfully disobey God.

Quote:Science has come to the conclusion that the tendency for homosexuality, pedaphilia and alcoholism are innate.  Does that mean that if I think the actions stemming from these tendencies are evil then I am a bigot?  no.  Of course not.

The fact that you are lumping homosexuality in with pedophilia means you are a bigot. But we've already established that you're a liar, so what the hell, why not be a bigot too?

(July 3, 2016 at 5:33 pm)Nihilist Virus Wrote: That is a lie.  Romans 1:27 says,

"In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other menn, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error." (NIV)

"And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet." (KJV)

Also, Jesus said that if you lust for a woman in your heart then you're guilty of adultery (Matthew 5:28).  The obvious implication is that if you lust for a man in your heart then you're guilty of homosexuality.

If your claim is that it is not sinful to have homosexual urges but rather that it is sinful to act on them, then you are a liar.  My quest for finding an honest apologist continues.

I altered your posts to highlight the parts that say that the act is sinful.  As far as the post concerning lust and adultery, here is the verse in context:

27 “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall not commit adultery.’ 28 But I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lustful intent has already committed adultery with her in his heart.

The discussion was concerning adultery.  If you even lust over another's wife you are as guilty as if you committed the act.  He wasn't discussing an attraction towards a man or a woman.

Quote:Irrelevant.  We're talking about homosexuality.

Since christianity doesn't recognize same sex marriages, homosexual relations are sexual acts outside of marriage.

Quote:So you are saying that if you were raised Christian, and hit puberty as a Christian, then you should not get married?  The only way a Christian should be married is if they were an unbeliever and then converted after already being married?

No.  Once you get married then you should have sexual relations.  

Quote:Elaborate on what you mean by "evil."

Here's my definition:

Evil: to willfully cause harm to another.

I think this is your definition:

Evil: to willfully disobey God.

Your definition is partially correct.  If you willfully cause harm to another person you are committing evil.  If you are willfully disobeying God you are also committing evil.

Quote:The fact that you are lumping homosexuality in with pedophilia means you are a bigot.  But we've already established that you're a liar, so what the hell, why not be a bigot too?

The reason that I'm lumping homosexuality with pedophilia and alcoholism is to demonstrate that they are all understood to be innate within individuals.  If they act out their desires they are performing acts which are considered evil to in christianity.  I'm not saying that the act of sex between two adult homosexuals is as heinous or as harmful as pedophilia.

As an aside I love homosexuals and want the best for them, which is to follow Christ.  My younger brother is gay and I also love him.  We live on separate coasts, but my whole family visited him a couple weeks ago.  I also love pedophiles and alcoholics.  Homosexuals and alcoholics who know me and my sins also love me.