(July 10, 2016 at 9:23 pm)The_Empress Wrote:

(July 10, 2016 at 8:57 pm)paulpablo Wrote: I mean violent interactions, not just being stopped.

I've been stopped and questioned around 5 times just off the top of my head, being questioned over where I'm walking, I've had a police car and a police van swoop in on me because I didn't drive through a traffic light when it turned green quickly enough, questioned over a car robbery while I still had my work uniform on and I was blatantly on my break in work. I've been questioned over a stabbing so on and so forth. I've got a completely clean criminal record by the way.

We're just talking about anecdotal incidents here so I know this proves nothing, but all my friends who got caught by police with drugs or searched extensively were friends who acted like idiots while around the police.
I've been tempted to act like an idiot with the police in times when they've been a bit overly aggressive in questioning me over stuff I've not done but I just keep my cool, and I'm assuming you sons did the same thing?  I've not always been stopped with an "excuse me sir" sometimes it's just been " EY! COME ERE NOW!" Which was the case when I was stopped because some sort of stabbing happened in my area.

When the police stopped me for the car robbery near my work and I was on my break, it was when I used to smoke weed and I had a bag of weed and a joint that was in the process of being rolled on the step behind me while I was being questioned by them. It was either out of luck or because I was polite or whatever they didn't ask me to stand up or ask what was behind me.  

Also I'm not actually saying there is anything anyone can do about any kind of prejudice any police officer has.
Apart from avoid bad areas, and if you live in a bad area just try and avoid being in possession of drugs or whatever else and try and be polite.  

What I would say is that areas with bad crime rates most likely have more police traffic going through and that will account for more interaction. If you go through those areas or live in those areas then you better watch out for the criminals and the police.

If I'm not mistaken, you're in the UK. We're talking very specifically about racial profiling here in the US. You would cringe at how silly you sound if you spent any significant time at all here.

It's almost as if the UK police forces didn't have their own problems with institutionalised racism.

(July 10, 2016 at 8:45 pm)Homeless Nutter Wrote:

(July 10, 2016 at 6:18 pm)A Theist Wrote: [...]
 To suggest that one people of color should be shot by the police to make things equal to another people of color was inappropriate, sarcastic in content or not. [...]

You obviously have no way of knowing that, but for anyone who - unlike you - is not a racist dimwit, it would be virtually impossible to perceive such a suggestion as a serious one. You, on the other hand, seem to consider racially motivated police brutality against people of certain ethnicity to be somewhat justified, therefore you can imagine someone else thinking the same about your own race - which is why you become defensive.

It's also quite telling, that you concluded, that I don't like white people, but not that I don't like women, even though I made the same sarcastic suggestion regarding them in the same post. Was that appropriate, then? Gee, thanks, Buffalo Bill...  

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3grk-slP0LU

Sarcasm, or not, joking, or not, serious, or not, it was still inappropriate to suggest that any person of one color should be shot by the police to make things equal to people of another color. I caught the sarcasm in the first place. It was revealing of your disdain for white people.

Nope. I didn't leave out the women from your sarcastic suggestion, pages 2 & 3

Quote:Obviously, HN has an issue with whites, and since you didn't call him out for suggesting that the cops shoot a couple of white guys,  and "maybe a woman or two", I can only assume that you agree with his position. Is that something you agree with? Would that make things more equal for you?

Quote:No it wasn't. He was actually being dishonest. He emboldened part of a reply that I made to Homeless Nutter after he suggested that the cops should shoot a couple of white guys and maybe a woman or two, to please the egalitarians.

See. I included them too.
I think Wild Bill rather than Buffalo Bill would be more in line of the portrait you're trying to paint. 

BLM protesters create more havoc across several cities overnight. Freeways blocked, clashes with police, and weapons found result in at least 200 arrests.

Quote:Protests continued today in Baton Rouge, Louisiana, and St. Paul, Minnesota, following a night in which 200 protesters were arrested by police between the two cities.
Thousands of demonstrators have flooded the streets of major U.S. cities throughout the weekend, protesting the recent killings by police of two black men, Philando Castile in suburban St. Paul, Minnesota, and Alton Sterling in Baton Rouge, Louisiana earlier this week.
Last night, participants in the St. Paul demonstration allegedly hurled Molotov cocktails, fireworks, rocks, glass bottles, concrete slabs, and bricks at riot gear-wearing police officers.
In Baton Rouge, demonstrators knocked out an officer's teeth, according to police.
Three rifles, three shotguns and two pistols were confiscated during that rally, police also said. Members of the New Black Panther Party for Self Defense were also present, shouting "Black Power" and raising their fists, police said.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/protests-contin...d=40467365

If BLM is actually trying to accomplish anything good it's being underscored by their own violent and disruptive protests.

(July 11, 2016 at 1:30 am)Thena323 Wrote:

(July 10, 2016 at 11:31 pm)paulpablo Wrote: If you don't need proof of what you're trying to claim then don't use anecdotal proof when it means nothing.

I never claimed that black people are beaten and killed by police because they have more contact with law enforcement and so on.

What I claimed is that the percentages of black people involved in police brutality would match up with their population size if no police prejudice was involved, but also for a completely equal representation in that aspect it would also mean black people and white people would have to commit equal amounts of crime, resist arrest in equal amounts and be just as violent against the police as white people.

Since they aren't, a disproportionate amount of cop killers are black for example, it can't just be completely put down to the police being racially prejudice because not all races are equally causing as much disturbance with the law and police.

Not just simply that black people are being killed by police because they commit crime, there's probably lots of factors, but lots of factors beyond racial discrimination.

Do try and focus. 
The issue isn't about lawful shootings, or how much crime black Americans commit, paulpablo.

It's about the unlawful shooting of unarmed individuals and excessive force. 
Why is that so difficult for you to process?

Why should the incarceration and/or arrest rates of any other blacks in America have any bearing on the individual decision to stop a person who's done nothing suspicious, or to shoot an unarmed and/or innocent person? The fact that you're not even able to make a distinction between the two matters comes depressingly close to reflecting the crux of the problem. 

You'd probably make an excellent cop.

Not incarceration rates or arrest rates. It's crime rates. Police officers stop people based on descriptions they have about offenders, if the young black male crime rate is high the rate of stopping young black males to question them will be high.

That along with racial profiling and prejudice which I have already mentioned.

And I don't get why you're asking me what should happen?  I've said 

Quote:I'm saying one of the reasons behind an increased rate of police brutality against black people may be in part due to a higher crime, more instances of resisting arrest, and more violence against police from black people resulting in more interactions with the police that turn violent.

I didn't say the police should operate on increasing their levels of brutality against black people because they resist arrest and kill the police more.

I did say police brutality should be proportional to population size but the increased level of police brutality maybe because of increased contact with the police as a community.

When I say it should in that instance it was just a figure of speech, not meaning literally the police should try and even out their levels of police brutality between the races, ideally there should be no police brutality.

So asking me what should black people do, should they stay indoors, why should police officers do these things and so on, is pointless.

I'm saying if more black people are violent with the police and resist arrest more, a few of those times they might encounter some psycho cop, he might be black or white,  who's going to fuck them up.  Not that he should do that, but he might. The police will be patrolling the neighborhood more if they want easy arrests, totally innocent black people might be brought into these confrontations just due to police mistakes, peer pressure, being friends with black criminals.

None of that has anything to do with what black lives matter do or don't protest about it was how I was replying to this comment.....

Quote:First off, if the percentage of blacks who are killed is the same as the percentage of whites who are killed, that's still a very disproportionate number of black people. Black people are only what, 10-15% of America? For there to be absolutely no racial bias in these killings, only 10-15% of police brutality victims should be black. It's far more than 15% going on the frequency of which we hear about it compared to whites being killed.

I imagine unarmed black people have more contact with the police than unarmed black people, A theist didn't show his source that Yeaux was replying to but say if it's just talking about unarmed black men vs unarmed white men and the rates they are killed by police.

If black men are committing more crime and being arrested more then they're going be in contact with more police officers who could be psycho racists, they have a higher chance of being in contact with incompetent police officers, shot, thrown into a back of a van, knocked out and hit the floor in a bad way and so on.
This is just going to be amplified if they're resisting arrest, trying to run away or whatever.
Whenever anyone of any race is stopped by police it's a Russian roulette as to whether you're about to deal with a psycho cop or a jolly laughing policeman, if anyone commits a lot of violent crime and resists arrest they take the chance of encountering these policemen everytime they do.

Again not to say that racial prejudice doesn't happen and not to say it isn't given out more to black people. But it's incorrect to say there's no other factors than racial bias that explain the discrepancy between unarmed white people killed by police and unarmed black people.

(July 11, 2016 at 2:05 am)Huggy74 Wrote:

(July 10, 2016 at 11:31 pm)Opaulpablo Wrote: Not just simply that black people are being killed by police because they commit crime, there's probably lots of factors, but lots of factors beyond racial discrimination.

*emphasis mine*

Let me tell you about some of those factors.

It is a known fact that the US government was pushing drugs into predominantly black neighborhoods via the CIA to fund the central american contras after congress had cut funding.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CIA_involv...rafficking

Quote:The involvement of the United States Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) in cocaine trafficking in Central America during the Reagan Administration as part of the Contra war in Nicaragua has been the subject of several official and journalistic investigations since the mid-1980s. In 1986, the Reagan Administration acknowledged that funds from cocaine smuggling helped fund the Contra rebels, but stated that it was not authorized by the US government or resistance leaders.[1] The Kerry Committee found that "the Contra drug links included[,]" amongst other connections, " .... Payments to drug traffickers by the U.S. State Department of funds authorized by the Congress for humanitarian assistance to the Contras, in some cases after the traffickers had been indicted by federal law enforcement agencies on drug charges, in others while traffickers were under active investigation by these same agencies."

Keep in mind all the while this is going on during "the just say no" campaign against drugs by Nancy Reagan...

It's all about cause and effect.

So what do you think will happen to a neighborhood that get's flooded with drugs by the government and at the same time this very same government is waging a war on drugs?

Don't you think you'd see higher crime rates in those neighborhoods? Higher incarceration rates?

After reviewing the above information, do you still not believe that BLM has a legitimate beef?

And by the way the guy in the YouTube video (Mike Rupert) is an example of a "good cop", one that exposes corruption, not covers it up.

I believe there is a documentary about him if I remember correctly.

I don't have time at this moment to see that information in the video.  I'll just assume everything your saying is correct for the sake of discussion right now.

1) I think black lives matter do have legitimate beef, but they're segregating what could be a united cause against people of every race who lives in poverty, is a victim of police brutality, or assuming your information is correct, is a victim of living in an area consumed by drug addiction at the hands of the government.

2) Again assuming your information is correct and that black lives matter are protesting against the government's wholesale distribution of drugs then why not also protest against what would be the equivalent of retail distribution of drugs within their own communities by black gangs such as the crips and the bloods who kill each other for territory over selling these drugs.

3) If the streets are flooded with drugs that are causing harm there still has to be responsibility within any community to choose to not take the drugs, sell the drugs, fight over the drugs and to raise children properly so when they grow up they don't feel the need to destructively take drugs.

I personally think marijuana should be legal and sold legitimately anyway, but I suppose we're talking about arguably more addictive and destructive drugs like cocaine and heroin. Some people take these out of boredom in which case I think it's pretty much their fault, or they take them because of a bad childhood or bad experiences which the person's family and community have to take responsibility for to an certain extent in some cases.  For example in cases of child abuse, children being hit as a form of punishment or verbal abuse from parents or guardians.
Corporal punishment against children has a positive correlation with substance abuse, and some statistics show black parents being more likely to hit their children as a form of punishment. The racial group least likely to hit their children were East Asians in the same statistics.

(July 11, 2016 at 4:58 am)Constable Dorfl Wrote:

(July 10, 2016 at 9:23 pm)The_Empress Wrote: If I'm not mistaken, you're in the UK. We're talking very specifically about racial profiling here in the US. You would cringe at how silly you sound if you spent any significant time at all here.

It's almost as if the UK police forces didn't have their own problems with institutionalised racism.

Where did I imply that?? This thread is about BLM and whether or not racial profiling is a problem in the US. 

Jesus effing christ. Why is this so hard to understand?

(July 10, 2016 at 11:31 pm)paulpablo Wrote: What I claimed is that the percentages of black people involved in police brutality would match up with their population size if no police prejudice was involved, but also for a completely equal representation in that aspect it would also mean black people and white people would have to commit equal amounts of crime, resist arrest in equal amounts and be just as violent against the police as white people.

There are indeed multiple factors, but racial profiling by many if not most American police departments is a fact. The idea that American police only go after law-breakers is silly and beggars comment.

Hey, so, this was posted yesterday, and is very pertinent to a lot of the discussion in this thread about whether police brutality is related to "a community's interaction with the police" or whatnot:

Pharyngula: "Don't Blame the Victims"

The takeaway:

Newly posted video by Paul Joseph Watson...The Truth About The Dallas Sniper Attack

(July 11, 2016 at 12:18 pm)TheRealJoeFish Wrote: Hey, so, this was posted yesterday, and is very pertinent to a lot of the discussion in this thread about whether police brutality is related to "a community's interaction with the police" or whatnot:

Pharyngula: "Don't Blame the Victims"

The takeaway:

---

And before anyone tries to jump in with "one axis is per 1000 and the other axis is per 1000000", that's NOT THE POINT AND YOU KNOW IT!!!

---

Police brutality isn't necessarily related to police killings.

I didn't say there would be a direct correlation to police killings and violence among cities.

I don't know all the precise correlations and how they relate to relate to other statistics but I made a guess that if you have one group resisting arrest and being more violent with the police and committing more crime in general, not just violent crime, it will result in more interactions with the police.

I said there's other factors, such as racial prejudice. For all I know the police department of Bakersfield could consist of nazi black hating psychopaths, but that doesn't mean the police department of Detroit has great race relations, their violent crime is through the roof and their officers are hardly killing anyone, they could be doing their job I effectively, there might not be as many of them, they could be corrupt, I don't know. I'm not saying it's their job to kill, but for whatever reason, maybe through no fault of their own, they aren't policing effectively, they're doing a relatively good job of not killing anyone but lacking when it comes to stopping people being killed.


I don't think it's controversial to notice that black people kill police at disproportionately high levels while being killed by police at disproportionately high levels and thinking these things could be related and it has more than one rooted cause and that both sides have some problems to take care of.