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RE: The problem with prayer.
July 25, 2016 at 7:56 pm
(July 25, 2016 at 1:27 pm)popsthebuilder Wrote: (July 20, 2016 at 11:01 am)robvalue Wrote: But how do you tell the difference between an answered prayer and a coincidence?
People pray for stuff all the time. Loads of stuff happens. Coincidences are going to happen. There is no proof for coincidences or chance.
All happens for a reason, though we may not understand it or even see it in it's entirety.
Faith in selfless Unity for Good.
Little babies get Zika, suffer and die. Children suffer due to lack of food. Innocents are killed by terrorists in truly horrible ways. And then, after a long life, your body breaks down, you lose your mind, and then it's game over.
See, I don't think it matters if stuff happens for a reason. As a person, if there's no benefit in doing something, I'm not going to do it. And clearly, nothing I can do with/for/about God will add an extra hair on my head or an extra day to my life.
So fuck it. Prayer is useless. Why should I prostrate myself to a God who won't benefit my life, or guarantee my safety while I learn about his wishes and train myself to follow them?
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RE: The problem with prayer.
July 25, 2016 at 7:56 pm
FatAndFaithless,
I believe, based on numerous things, that it is GOD's Will for all to be a part of His plan. But I cannot speak about you specifically.
No, ultimately you cannot change GOD's plan, but that doesn't mean that GOD will not do things for your sake or benefit.
How will you know GOD's response for you on if you can change IT's Will. I'm telling you now that you cannot change it. It hasn't changed since before time; it isn't going to change because of the supplication of a single individual. However, GOD will change your particular potential, scenario, experience if you truely and sincerely hope.
Prayer isn't for GOD to change IT's Will. It is for man to remember it.
Peace
Faith in selfless Unity for Good.
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RE: The problem with prayer.
July 25, 2016 at 8:01 pm
(July 25, 2016 at 7:56 pm)popsthebuilder Wrote: FatAndFaithless,
I believe, based on numerous things, that it is GOD's Will for all to be a part of His plan. But I cannot speak about you specifically.
No, ultimately you cannot change GOD's plan, but that doesn't mean that GOD will not do things for your sake or benefit.
How will you know GOD's response for you on if you can change IT's Will. I'm telling you now that you cannot change it. It hasn't changed since before time; it isn't going to change because of the supplication of a single individual. However, GOD will change your particular potential, scenario, experience if you truely and sincerely hope.
Prayer isn't for GOD to change IT's Will. It is for man to remember it.
Peace
Faith in selfless Unity for Good. You guys keep saying stuff like this. I'm here, now, living my life. If God cannot be persuaded to benefit me or mine, then why should I waste time praying? How about this-- God can descend from the heavens, tell me He's chosen me, give me energy, health, and wealth immeasurable, and then I'll pray like nobody has ever prayed before.
Until that, I'm gonna continue thinking that prayer is just the adult equivalent of talking to your imaginary friend. And while I can see the attraction of this, I'd rather talk to one who's likely to answer me.
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RE: The problem with prayer.
July 25, 2016 at 8:07 pm
(July 25, 2016 at 7:56 pm)bennyboy Wrote: (July 25, 2016 at 1:27 pm)popsthebuilder Wrote: There is no proof for coincidences or chance.
All happens for a reason, though we may not understand it or even see it in it's entirety.
Faith in selfless Unity for Good.
Little babies get Zika, suffer and die. Children suffer due to lack of food. Innocents are killed by terrorists in truly horrible ways. And then, after a long life, your body breaks down, you lose your mind, and then it's game over.
See, I don't think it matters if stuff happens for a reason. As a person, if there's no benefit in doing something, I'm not going to do it. And clearly, nothing I can do with/for/about God will add an extra hair on my head or an extra day to my life.
So fuck it. Prayer is useless. Why should I prostrate myself to a God who won't benefit my life, or guarantee my safety while I learn about his wishes and train myself to follow them? Because this life is but a blink, and if you think it is the will of GOD to abandon IT's creation, then you are wrong. It isn't for personal attainment, or isn't supposed to be. Prayer, and worship are for the sake of man, and the peaceable advancement of life. If one is too selfish to see that altruism is helpful to life in general then, well, that's their pride blinding then to what is really important.
What will personal attainment get you when you are dead?
Peace and unity are things to strive for at all personal costs for me. Each is entitled to their own opinion though.
Faith in selfless Unity for Good.
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RE: The problem with prayer.
July 25, 2016 at 8:09 pm
(This post was last modified: July 25, 2016 at 8:10 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
What will anything get you when you are dead? It's a complete non-question, to me. Peaceful, violent, altruistic, selfish, death makes equals of all men.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: The problem with prayer.
July 25, 2016 at 8:11 pm
(July 25, 2016 at 8:01 pm)bennyboy Wrote: (July 25, 2016 at 7:56 pm)popsthebuilder Wrote: FatAndFaithless,
I believe, based on numerous things, that it is GOD's Will for all to be a part of His plan. But I cannot speak about you specifically.
No, ultimately you cannot change GOD's plan, but that doesn't mean that GOD will not do things for your sake or benefit.
How will you know GOD's response for you on if you can change IT's Will. I'm telling you now that you cannot change it. It hasn't changed since before time; it isn't going to change because of the supplication of a single individual. However, GOD will change your particular potential, scenario, experience if you truely and sincerely hope.
Prayer isn't for GOD to change IT's Will. It is for man to remember it.
Peace
Faith in selfless Unity for Good. You guys keep saying stuff like this. I'm here, now, living my life. If God cannot be persuaded to benefit me or mine, then why should I waste time praying? How about this-- God can descend from the heavens, tell me He's chosen me, give me energy, health, and wealth immeasurable, and then I'll pray like nobody has ever prayed before.
Until that, I'm gonna continue thinking that prayer is just the adult equivalent of talking to your imaginary friend. And while I can see the attraction of this, I'd rather talk to one who's likely to answer me. You really shouldn't equate GOD to a pez dispenser. Has IT NOT given you life, opportunity, experience?
You will be waiting a long time if you demand GOD does anything for your benefit or comfort as if you are greater than GOD.
GOD can do many wonderful things. Really anything. But isn't going to do things simply to make anyone's life easy just cuz they demand it as a term of their Faith.
Faith in selfless Unity for Good.
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RE: The problem with prayer.
July 25, 2016 at 8:13 pm
(This post was last modified: July 25, 2016 at 8:14 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
(July 25, 2016 at 8:11 pm)popsthebuilder Wrote: You really shouldn't equate GOD to a pez dispenser. Has IT NOT given you life, opportunity, experience?
No?
Quote:You will be waiting a long time if you demand GOD does anything for your benefit or comfort as if you are greater than GOD.
He'll be waiting a long time either way. Which is onl;y to say that it will never happen regardless.
Quote:GOD can do many wonderful things. Really anything. But isn't going to do things simply to make anyone's life easy just cuz they demand it as a term of their Faith.
Like finding lost wallets, appear on toast...divide all men in deleterious wars over the correct interpretation of faith? Or regrow a limb?
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: The problem with prayer.
July 25, 2016 at 8:16 pm
(July 25, 2016 at 8:11 pm)popsthebuilder Wrote: You really shouldn't equate GOD to a pez dispenser. Has IT NOT given you life, opportunity, experience? Nope. That was the universe and my parents.
Quote:You will be waiting a long time if you demand GOD does anything for your benefit or comfort as if you are greater than GOD.
Yeah, then won't I feel silly? I think maybe I just won't bother.
Quote:GOD can do many wonderful things. Really anything. But isn't going to do things simply to make anyone's life easy just cuz they demand it as a term of their Faith.
Yeah. . . expecting God to do something for you as a reward for your hundreds of hours of devoted prayer would be silly. But not nearly as silly as spending hundreds of hours in devoted prayer knowing you're not going to get anything out of it except sore knees.
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RE: The problem with prayer.
July 25, 2016 at 8:29 pm
(July 25, 2016 at 8:11 pm)popsthebuilder Wrote: GOD can do many wonderful things. Really anything. But isn't going to do things simply to make anyone's life easy just cuz they demand it as a term of their Faith.
How convenient - pray for anything specific, unambiguous and testable, and nothing happens. Ever.
And atheism isn't a faith (let alone a Faith), despite your insinuation.
At the age of five, Skagra decided emphatically that God did not exist. This revelation tends to make most people in the universe who have it react in one of two ways - with relief or with despair. Only Skagra responded to it by thinking, 'Wait a second. That means there's a situation vacant.'
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RE: The problem with prayer.
July 25, 2016 at 8:31 pm
(This post was last modified: July 25, 2016 at 8:34 pm by Silver.)
We all know theists are not the most brilliant in any form of logic.
Prayer is nothing except a form of validation for the one praying. It helps the prayer feel better. It does absolutely nothing, thanks to our understanding of reason.
"Never trust a fox. Looks like a dog, behaves like a cat."
~ Erin Hunter
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