(August 8, 2016 at 5:38 pm)Anomalocaris Wrote:

(August 8, 2016 at 5:31 pm)Jello Wrote: Considering that boeing made the B-29s used to nuke japan (Hence the B in the name...), he has a fair point you're overlooking.

Yes, how about the companies that made the cranes which loaded the nuke onto the B-29?

Exactly. My point is you're blaming the tools that had no choice, instead of the people that did.

(August 8, 2016 at 12:33 pm)Jello Wrote:

(August 8, 2016 at 11:52 am)Anomalocaris Wrote: Yeah?   we won.

And here we have it; You can commit atrocities all you want, just as long as you're on the winning team.

How about. . . you can commit the atrocities all you want, if the other fuckers started it unprovoked and in the most cowardly possible way, and then killed hundreds of thousands of your best young men. . . in a war you never even wanted to enter in the first place?

I guess you think two wrongs don't make a right.  But look at what Japan did. . . they were pure fucking cancer to the world at that time-- and they killed wwwwwaaaayyyy more civilians than they lost.  In fact, they probably achieved that mark just with the Rape of Nanking. So let's not cry SJW tears for the poor Japanese victims of a war that Japan fucking started.

(August 8, 2016 at 4:49 pm)Anomalocaris Wrote:

(August 8, 2016 at 1:55 pm)Thumpalumpacus Wrote: Are you incapable of acknowledging a point someone else makes? Just curious.


I suspect he's being deliberately obtuse.

The point seems to be that one could always unsubtlely obfuscate any issue by pretending there is no difference between dramatically different shades of gray.

On the one hand, there is Boeing which engaged in, albeit with perhaps greater than average effectiveness, what is commonly accepted as normal war industrial effort in a war. On the other hand, there is I.G.farben, which had unusually close association with refining the mechanics and logistics of extermination in the concentration camps.

So who is obtuse, deliberate or natural?

The point's flying over your head, higher than a B-29 laden with M-69s. The greys aren't nearly so different as you imagine.

(August 8, 2016 at 6:54 pm)Jello Wrote:

(August 8, 2016 at 5:38 pm)Anomalocaris Wrote: Yes, how about the companies that made the cranes which loaded the nuke onto the B-29?

Exactly. My point is you're blaming the tools that had no choice, instead of the people that did.

Really? You had a point?

(August 8, 2016 at 8:23 pm)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:

(August 8, 2016 at 4:49 pm)Anomalocaris Wrote: The point seems to be that one could always unsubtlely obfuscate any issue by pretending there is no difference between dramatically different shades of gray.

On the one hand, there is Boeing which engaged in, albeit with perhaps greater than average effectiveness, what is commonly accepted as normal war industrial effort in a war.    On the other hand, there is I.G.farben, which had unusually close association with refining the mechanics and logistics of extermination in the concentration camps.

So who is obtuse, deliberate or natural?

The point's flying over your head, higher than a B-29 laden with M-69s. The greys aren't nearly so different as you imagine.

Perhaps you see somethings as being much less gray then you should.

(August 8, 2016 at 8:08 pm)bennyboy Wrote:

(August 8, 2016 at 12:33 pm)Jello Wrote: And here we have it; You can commit atrocities all you want, just as long as you're on the winning team.

How about. . . you can commit the atrocities all you want, if the other fuckers started it unprovoked and in the most cowardly possible way, and then killed hundreds of thousands of your best young men. . . in a war you never even wanted to enter in the first place?

I guess you think two wrongs don't make a right.  But look at what Japan did. . . they were pure fucking cancer to the world at that time-- and they killed wwwwwaaaayyyy more civilians than they lost.  In fact, they probably achieved that mark just with the Rape of Nanking. So let's not cry SJW tears for the poor Japanese victims of a war that Japan fucking started.

For myself, I'm not crying "SJW tears" -- I'm merely pointing out that our own execution of the war had its moral weaknesses as well.

Another example: Compare the different treatments of Lockhart and Doenitz. Both ran unrestricted submarine campaigns. One was tried and convicted as a war criminal, the other was promoted -- for the same acts.

(August 8, 2016 at 8:29 pm)Anomalocaris Wrote:

(August 8, 2016 at 8:23 pm)Thumpalumpacus Wrote: The point's flying over your head, higher than a B-29 laden with M-69s. The greys aren't nearly so different as you imagine.

Perhaps you see somethings as being much less gray then you should.

Perhaps if you made a stronger case you could change my mind.

(August 8, 2016 at 8:08 pm)bennyboy Wrote:

(August 8, 2016 at 12:33 pm)Jello Wrote: And here we have it; You can commit atrocities all you want, just as long as you're on the winning team.

How about. . . you can commit the atrocities all you want, if the other fuckers started it unprovoked and in the most cowardly possible way, and then killed hundreds of thousands of your best young men. . . in a war you never even wanted to enter in the first place?

I guess you think two wrongs don't make a right.  But look at what Japan did. . . they were pure fucking cancer to the world at that time-- and they killed wwwwwaaaayyyy more civilians than they lost.  In fact, they probably achieved that mark just with the Rape of Nanking.  So let's not cry SJW tears for the poor Japanese victims of a war that Japan fucking started.

I'm not saying anything about what happened, other than trying to blame an inanimate object for a person's action is stupid, and how Anom's saying that inanimate objects can be blamed, unless they belong to the winner. I don't really give a fuck about the people who died past an "oh, it sucks people died."

(August 8, 2016 at 8:28 pm)Anomalocaris Wrote:

(August 8, 2016 at 6:54 pm)Jello Wrote: Exactly. My point is you're blaming the tools that had no choice, instead of the people that did.

Really?  You had a point?

I'd say it's pretty clearly stated there, yeah. Would you actually like to attack my points rather than try to attack me, and fail?

Uh, no.  No one, as far as I recall, blamed the tool.  Blaming the tool would be something like "how dare that battleship bear afloat those who would go on to massacre 20,000 civilians"

What is being blamed are the those who committed atrocities while they rallied around the names that they gave to the tool, and the modern Japanese politicians who unhesitantly resurrect the same names while denying the crimes ever occurred.   It would be something like "how dare the Japanese revive the name Hiei as if the crimes of those who wore that name on a band around their sailor's cap didn't happen"