Catholics believe in Jesus - that alone makes them Christian I would argue, never mind the rest.

Christian=CHIRSTian - they believe in Jesus - they try to follow Jesus - who cares whether they are said by other Christians to not follow him 'properly' Jesus - what matters is that they DO BELIEVE in Jesus - and that they TRY to follow Jesus. To follow Christ.

They believe in Christ that makes them CHRISTian - right? Surely?

EvF

Well EvF, according to Wiki-
"What is a Christian?

The American Heritage Dictionary defines a Christian as "one who professes belief in Jesus as Christ or follows the religion based on the life and teachings of Jesus; one who lives according to the teachings of Jesus." "

It seems fr0d0 is arguing a NTS argument.

@kyu.

Thank you.

I was Catholic until I was 13 or 14.

Of course I considered myself a christian

I also had a lot of Catholic friends, all of whom considered themselves to be christian.

There are probably some more things I could say here but I didn't read the entire thread and I'm going to sleep now.

(April 12, 2009 at 11:29 pm)WWLD Wrote: I was Catholic until I was 13 or 14.

Of course I considered myself a christian

I also had a lot of Catholic friends, all of whom considered themselves to be christian.

There are probably some more things I could say here but I didn't read the entire thread and I'm going to sleep now.

Exactly! That's what I've been telling Fr0d0, that catholocism is christianity and those who are catholics probably see themselves as christians.

But he is stubborn as a donkey. Or perhaps as a hobbit.

(April 13, 2009 at 7:27 am)Giff Wrote:

(April 12, 2009 at 11:29 pm)WWLD Wrote: I was Catholic until I was 13 or 14.

Of course I considered myself a christian

I also had a lot of Catholic friends, all of whom considered themselves to be christian.

There are probably some more things I could say here but I didn't read the entire thread and I'm going to sleep now.

Exactly! That's what I've been telling Fr0d0, that catholocism is christianity and those who are catholics probably see themselves as christians.

But he is stubborn as a donkey. Or perhaps as a hobbit.

But not as smart as a hobbit.

The "Catholics are not REAL Christians" canard has been around since the days of Martin Luther. Fair enough,I guess, not a lot of people would have heard of "the true Scotsman" fallacy at that time.This may have something to do with the fact that the term wasn't coined until 1975.


Thought for today ;"Rather than being an indicator of intellect or character, being stubborn indicates the precise opposite" (Tarquin St John Shagnasty)

Of course Catholics are Christian, speaking as someone who was raised Catholic.

The important part of being Christian is to believe in Jesus, and Catholics do. The simple fact is that Catholicism is what Christianity was all about until Protestantism formed and various sects began forming. Catholicism, simply put, is the basis for Christianity. So this idea that there are Christian ideals that make some Catholics "not true Christians" is ridicilous. Christians believe in Jesus, from there you move on to the various religions and sects all believing one thing, all claiming the other isn't Christian.

It doesn't surprise me that out little hobbit has neither not heard of or doesn't understand the "no true Scotsman" fallacy.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman

The "Catholics are not REAL Christians" canard has been around since the time of Martin Luther. The church has traditionally replied with counter accusations,with as much force and validity,backed up by the beloved institution of the Spanish Inquistion. (which actually still exists under the title of "Society For The Propagation Of The Faith)
The church's public position on ecumenism is humbug.It tolerates other christian faiths but considers them ALL in error,and their members, "not true Christians'.

Non Christians tend to be rather bemused at the bickering between Christian sects and just laughs at all of them..

Catholics, like the rest of the catholic Christian church, follow the same belief system. As I've outlined above, members of the Catholic church that don't follow Christ, and that IS possible, are not Christians. I simply point out to you the simple facts. I've met very few atheists that understand what Christianity is really about. If you wish to continue in your ignorance then that's up to you. I merely seek to put right your misconceptions. It isn't an argument for me, it's a simple point of fact.

Padriac you're statements are laughable. Martin Luther had valid points and pointed out to Catholicism where it was in error. Catholicism clung on to it's deviation from Christ's direct teachings and so the split occurred. Like I've said, mostly Christianity as a whole is together as a church now. Only those that refuse to accept Christ's teachings are considered non Christians. Which of my points listed do you think is Christian?

@ Kyu: If you want to address Christians instead of the incorrect definition that you have, then you have to face the facts. Personally I find it incredulous that after 15 years you still have no real understanding of what you rebel against. You of all people represent stubbournness for the sake of it. You made up your mind against something without knowing the facts, and you defend your position of ignorance.

(April 14, 2009 at 3:23 am)fr0d0 Wrote: Catholics, like the rest of the catholic Christian church, follow the same belief system. As I've outlined above, members of the Catholic church that don't follow Christ, and that IS possible, are not Christians. I simply point out to you the simple facts. I've met very few atheists that understand what Christianity is really about. If you wish to continue in your ignorance then that's up to you. I merely seek to put right your misconceptions. It isn't an argument for me, it's a simple point of fact.

What you consider "misconceptions" come across to everyone else as arrogance ... ignoring the "fuck's" [GRIN] the poll above demonstrates that everyone else (I assume the one dissenting vote is you) believes that Catholics are just Christians like every other Christian. In fact here's one fpr you ... the Westboro Baptists are Christians too (it may even be possible to make a case for the Ku Klux Klan being Christian too ).

(April 14, 2009 at 3:23 am)fr0d0 Wrote: If you want to address Christians instead of the incorrect definition that you have, then you have to face the facts. Personally I find it incredulous that after 15 years you still have no real understanding of what you rebel against. You of all people represent stubbournness for the sake of it. You made up your mind against something without knowing the facts, and you defend your position of ignorance.

Like I say above arrogance [SHRUG] ... and that is based on 15 years of meeting this same absolutely unjustifiable claim from every other fuckwit under the sun.

Kyu