(September 29, 2016 at 5:32 am)abaris Wrote:

(September 29, 2016 at 4:59 am)Tazzycorn Wrote: .... along with any oaths used in wtate ceremonies which explicitly reference a deity (eg so help me god).

Isn't there a provision for a secular oath? I mean, the default in my country is also religious, but if you claim to be a non believer, they make you swear without any god. Especially at court.

The establishment clause is as follows:

Quote:Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof...

To me that reads that any action by a government or governmental body which even indicates that a specific religious idea is privileged over others is prohibited under the constitution. Putting "one nation under god" in the pledge of allegiance or "so help me god" in the naturalisation oath is clearly privileging christianity over other forms of religion and irreligion (giving the idea that the state thinks christianity is true), and having to get dispensation to remove them (as with an affirmation when giving testimony in court) only reinforces this privelege. To be properly constituional in my mind, there should be no reference to god in any document supplied by or statement from or to a state body, unless those documents or statements deal directly with religion (eg a report on the effectiveness of religious organisations in education for example would have to discuss religion in some way).

(September 28, 2016 at 5:04 pm)Drich Wrote:

(September 28, 2016 at 11:15 am)Huggy74 Wrote: I don't think you get the point I'm trying to make, read my quote again.

I'm not changing any narrative, I showed you video of 2 men resisting cops by using force. The charges were dropped. If you're not allowed to resist cops authority, then explain why the charges were dropped.
My question, why were the charges of assault on a police officer dropped? They are clearly shown on video fighting with the cops, but according to YOU, one is not allowed to resist an unlawful arrest, and should just bend over and take it.

And again, I said you can not alpha a cop. Meaning you can not intimidate your way out of being arrested. You can't fight your way out of being arrested. Again If a cop has it in his mind you are going to be arrested then that is what will happen.

And again what you do not seem to still understand is that being arrested does not automatically mean you are guilty of a crime or need to goto jail.

To directly answer your question these men were released because the charges were dropped by the person who filed them or were dropped by someone in a police station or someone like the DA who works with them.

Quote:So I ask again, why were the charges dropped?

Now the part that you don't seem to get is I am saying if a cop has it in his mind you need to be taken into custody then either he or the army of police standing behind him is going to arrest or kill you. So there is no point in fighting. Now does being taken in mean your going to jail? No. It simply is the start of the 'due process' you are entitled to as a citizen. If their was a procedural or it is determined the wrong person was detained mistake made then more than likely (if they can admit it) then by this 'due process' you will be kicked/let go. I can only assume as I have no way to verify that they were indeed let go that it is because of due process. However in the case of your fan fiction, you can create your own narrative as to the reason why he was let go as that was not even a real arrest.

So again, the short answer is the reason people are let go after being arrested with no trial... the answer is "due process of the law." And arrest does not = a conviction. Only a moron thinks that just because one is arrested that means he is automatically going to jail.

What's up with all the filibustering? You typed all that without answering anything.

It is YOUR position that you should NEVER resist arrest, correct?

My point is if that is true, Then why were the assault, and resisting arrest charges dropped on the 2 men when they clearly were on video fighting with cops?

This is the answer you gave me:

(September 28, 2016 at 5:04 pm)Drich Wrote: To directly answer your question these men were released because the charges were dropped by the person who filed them or were dropped by someone in a police station or someone like the DA who works with them.

I didn't ask WHO dropped the charges, I want to know WHY they were dropped when the men WERE CLEARLY CAUGHT ASSAULTING COP ON VIDEO, got it? Are you saying the prosecutor dropped the charges out of the goodness of her heart?

Also why did the city of Detroit pay out $120,000 to these men after they clearly resisted arrest?

It would seem the "governing authorities" found that they did nothing wrong by resisting an unlawful arrest, correct?

(September 27, 2016 at 4:31 pm)Drich Wrote: Huggs I do respect you but this is the dumbest thing you've ever said.
James Holems did not point his gun at cops. When confronted by cops he complied and was taken peacefully...

So why is this the single dumbest thing you've ever said?

Because your an idiot if you think tamir or James' crimes had ANYTHING to do with their outcomes.

Tamir died because the cop thought he was going to be shot/killed by a 1911 .45 semi automatic.

James lived because he folded like a house of cards. when he was told to do X he did not scream at the cops he did not pull a gun from his belt. He did what he was told when he was told.

That is my whole point. Let the cops have control of the situation and even if you are arrested you will live. Fight a cop go for a gun (real or not) and you die.

Why is it 95% of the population understands this, and 5% think this is too much to ask?

Quote:How many times did Dylan Roof brandish and point a gun a people? Oh wait he actually killed 9 people... he was also taken alive and bought a burger to boot.

Again, dylan did what he was told when he was told.. Cops are not judges their primary job is to make an arrest. if you will not allow them to arrest you they are to subdue you. If you will not be subued or threaten their lives then they are to take you by force NO MATTER WHAT YOUR ORIGINAL CRIME IS. However if you comply then they Must take you alive. NO MATTER WHAT YOUR CRIME IS!

That is why those murders lived and Tamir died.

So are you off the idea that the bible says we are to resist arrest? Did Jesus' example/submission to Authorities despite their authority over you, show you that your position (that it is ok to resist police if you are innocent/right are violated) is wrong/unchristian?

*emphasis mine*

Oh so what you're saying is that James Holmes and Dylan Roof were given an opportunity to surrender, correct? Show me in this video where Tamir pulled out his gun and screamed at the cops, or had any opportunity to surrender for that matter.

Quote:Drich Wrote:
Huggs I do respect you but this is the dumbest thing you've ever said.
James Holems did not point his gun at cops. When confronted by cops he complied and was taken peacefully...

So why is this the single dumbest thing you've ever said?

Because your an idiot if you think tamir or James' crimes had ANYTHING to do with their outcomes.

Tamir died because the cop thought he was going to be shot/killed by a 1911 .45 semi automatic.

James lived because he folded like a house of cards. when he was told to do X he did not scream at the cops he did not pull a gun from his belt. He did what he was told when he was told.

That is my whole point. Let the cops have control of the situation and even if you are arrested you will live. Fight a cop go for a gun (real or not) and you die.

Why is it 95% of the population understands this, and 5% think this is too much to ask?

Sometimes this is measure by how much common sense you use, and this is where intelligence isn't really needed. For example:

1. Common sense tells you not to cross the roads when there is traffic, as this is punishable as a crime as you know, jaywalking. Why, because your life is in danger and common sense should tell people that crossing a busy street is not the right thing to do.

2. Common sense tells you to use a bic razor or a Gillette Mach 3 razor to shave and not a Stanley Knife because it is dangerous.

3. Common sense tells you not to throw aerosols into a bonfire because they explode.

4. Common sense tells you not to put a bottle of soda into a freezer because it will explode.

5. Common sense tells you to not drink and drive because it is dangerous, the same for drugs and driving with a telephone in the hand.

6. Common sense tells you to have a demonstration peacefully rather than violent.

7. Common sense tells you that when you have a gun, a knife or you are being aggressive to a person in authority, you are tempting fate. When a policeman or policewoman for that matter, tells you what to do, you listen carefully and do what they say. It could possible mean the difference between sleeping on a nice comfy bed with the woman of your dreams, or, a nice cold slab of marble where you will never wake up.

As I mentioned in one of my earlier posts, I couldn't give a rats ass how bad some cops are, as long as there are cops on the streets. I mean, they could just turn around and say "stick the job." Imagine a world without the police and no law and order. Anyone can walk into your house and take what they want, steal your car, murder anyone they wish, knowing full well they can get away with it. Question is, will the liberals be siding with those who have no respect for law and order and take what they please, or will they be begging on their knees for law and order to be restored? I know the response even if it doesn't happen, they would want the law and order to be reinstated.

(September 28, 2016 at 1:10 pm)Drich Wrote: When do you live in the late 90s?
Seriously, that lady cop who shot the pcp guy has been arrested and is charged with manslaughter. If their was a blue wall of silence, how then how is this lady cop in jail before the rioters can even be bussed to Colorado?

Video evidence.

Quote:Drich wrote:
Out side of the small town (where nothing happens) police officers are tested. And some of the reserve officers don't get tested and some of the administrative officers also forego testing. But there isn't a major city/population area that cops aren't tested in.

Quote:Drich

Actually I was going off of what I've been told after 20 years being a corrections deputy's son, and having other members of the family in law enforcement serving in other capacities locally and in other parts of the country...

---

But if you need a link I'll see what I can find.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H-jdLhnxY7c

The MMPI-2 seems to be the gold standard:
http://www.copuniversity.com/blog/what-mmpi-test/
Your article also mentions the MMPI-2

What is the MMPI-2?
http://occmed.oxfordjournals.org/content/59/2/135.full

---

Do you need me to keep going? You've got two list that say nearly all law enforcement uses psych evalus/testing to determine mental fitness of a candidate, and you have a link showing how in depth this test is by a reputable source. (meaning a well establish learning institution gives an exact break down of the test and an endorsement, verse a liberal rag telling you it's obsolete test.)

That's not what we were discussing. I will "cop" to making a error, in failing in to note that you were simply referring to testing in your post above, when were actually speaking of psychological evaluation. Our previous exchange below:

Quote:Drich wrote:These are completely unfair assessments.
Did you know a psych eval is performed for all potential recruits and each and everytime an officer's integrity is questioned? some departments even have their guys checked out one a year...

Quote:Thena wrote:
I never said all officers display those those traits. Some of them do, though; They're the ones that are part of the problem.

Additionally, all police officers are not required to undergo psychological evaluations. And currently, there's no nationwide standardization in place for administration or content of such evaluations. It literally varies from department to department.

The MMPI-2 is just a personality test. It's a single tool can be utilized in conjunction others in the process of psychological assessment/evaluation, not a psychological evaluation in and of itself.  My statement just above is accurate. 

Quote:Drich wrote:
The problem here is the black community at large is raised to believe they must be alpha males all the time. The want to dominate and be in control, which is in direct violation of every cops mandate on the street. 

And....

Quote:Drich wrote:
If you were punched hit or kicked by a certain segment of the population almost everytime you had to confront them would you treat them any differently?
Truth is i would. Why? I am not a stupid person and I want to make sure I go home to my family every night, and if that means i make a mistake and offend a few people, then f-them.

Quote:Thena wrote:

*My highlighting, for emphasis.

Clearly, you felt that it was unfair for me conclude that it's LIKELY you deem it necessary to adopt a tough, zero-tolerance policy when dealing with "the Negroes". I don't know what to say, other than your words were my guide.

Quote:Drich
If they were then why aren't they in their proper context? Why did you have to heavily edit my words to fabricate a point? If what I said was on the surface, and you are accurately representing what I said, then why not establish the context in which those words were spoken? Why do you hide from the context, why did you omit 1/2 the argument that frames what I said? and only cut up and display the parts of my response then pair it with another cut up quote and display them together???

It's called "quoting", crybaby. 
 
Just because I didn't quote the length your entire post (yes...they were from the exact same post), doesn't mean that your words taken out of context. The subject of those quotes from post #258, were the practice of pre-determining behavior, and why you believe police officers are justified in applying sweeping generalizations in treating all black males as threats; all in line with the topic at hand. What you actually take issue with, is the ugliness that stands out as result of my highlighting your most blatantly despicable comments. If you don't "like" the way truth looks, then drop the phony outrage and do something about it: Take it up with your conscience.


BTW: I'm putting the rest of my reply to this crap in a separate post, in order to make it more manageable to read/respond to.

(September 28, 2016 at 1:10 pm)Drich Wrote: Or will you simply sell your integrity to sell a point and play the race card??? Always the victim, always the oppressed minority.. You re no better than a tv evangelist who cuts up verses out of the bible and pastes together his own doctrine to try and swindle old and stupid people out of their money, but instead of money you are trying to sell a narrative that paints black people out of their dignity, out of any hope to be anything without a hand out.

Believe it or not, you're actually the one who's playing the race card, by continually implying that my only interest in this matter imply in regards to race. I've made it clear, that I believe that such abuse of authority should be of concern to any normal citizen. You're the one that created the thread, in an apparent attempt to debunk/challenge the "notions" that police misconduct even exists, or that blacks can actually be innocent. I'm only contributing to discussion within the framework you provided. 

Quote:Drich
because white man will always just stomp you down. When in truth people across the world (Syria) are literally lining up to endure the 'oppression' you say black people can't function under. Why is that? Why would Syrians want to come to a country hostile to them/Dont want them here? For The same reason my family came here... Because even though they were hated (A member of a race hated by all Americans not just whites, as they were a perceived enemy of America for nearly 40 years in 3 different armed conflicts/wars) The reason the came here is even with the hate that ALL Americans were politically correct in feeling pre9-11 when arab people became the new hated race, It is sh*t ton better here (even with all the minority oppression black people seem to be buckling under) than where they came from.. where they were truly oppressed (hunted down and killed for their beliefs/who they were geologically speaking)

The fact that immigrants seek to come to the US in order to attain a better life, doesn't negate the fact that injustice does indeed occur in this country. I see no absolutely no point in ignoring or being unwilling to address those matters, in favor of seeking to "measure" the oppression of one group over another in the ultimate game of "Who's Had it Worse?" It only serves as an argument as to why individuals of certain subgroup should shut up, bend over, "take it up the ass"  and then be grateful for the "opportunity" to be FUCKED; because, after all...it could be worse. 

I don't play that game.

Quote:Yet here you are born here, and ONLY have one racial obstacle to over come (BY JUST FOLLOWING THE F*CKING RULES OF SOCIETY THAT EVERYONE NEED FOLLOW NOT JUST BLACK) and you want special permission to shit on police and society. With out it you personally will turn on anyone who says, hey this is moronic and infantile. Just do what cops say do and you wont get shot.. If this was a real issue If america was just asking too much then why oh why didn't MLKjr march police shooting an armed black man? or march when police shoot a black man fighting the police? Or march when a black man has a gun and will not comply with orders? Why? because back then unlike today the lines between right and wrong are blurred because back then MLKjr did not want hold up law breaking criminals as heros. Because there were real instances of oppression where inocent people were being mistreated by police and others. It is to these cases that he marched and it is to these cases that he united the community, even so he still did not riot. nor call for the death of anyone let alone police...


Why do people now support the exact oppsite people, protest proceedures and values that MLK Jr pioneered yet still want to align their cause with his?

Wow, back at square one.

You really can't do it, can you? You're incapable of accepting that there are protesters (the majority),  and there are rioters; They're one in the same in your narrow little mind; Clearly, there's not enough room for you to process the notion of there being more than one type of black person there....and MLK Jr.

Quote:Drich
Dude dove in his car or reach deep in his car... I would have shot the guy too after the second or third time I told him let me see your hands... That said i acknoweledge the cops mistake and my own if I were in that situation and then I do expect the cop to be prosecuted if the law so demands it.

WRONG.

Dude reached in his car like a normal fucking person to retrieve his license, and was never told to" Let me see  your hands." The driver was told "Get out of the car" ONE time, before he getting out of the vehicle as instructed.  The trooper said it a second time, just as he started shooting at the driver.....who had already exited the vehicle. 

It's pretty sickening, the lengths you'll got to, in an attempt attribute this particular incident to the driver. 
Reveals a lot about you and how your mind works, I think.

Quote:Or so says the general racist narritive that demands me to be completely for you and what you have to say or against you.

No wander you want to pass this up.

I don't even know what you're talking about here. I don't expect anyone to be completely "for me" or agree on every incident where racial bias is suspected, because I'm honest enough to acknowledge that my own bias has the potential to skew my view of these situations at times.

I don't even claim to know that this shooting was racially motivated. I suspect it may played a significant role in the event, but it's quite possible that the trooper was simply one of the most careless, worthless, horrendous State Troopers in the history SC. Or had been dropping acid a few hours earlier; I don't know. 

But, what I do know is that someone who can look at that video and say "Nope, nothing's wrong here", has a serious fucking problem. 
There's no way around that.

You can take that however you like.

(September 28, 2016 at 5:19 pm)Drich Wrote: As any good military man will tell you their responsibilities are: God, Country, Family in that order.

Mine are no different. and I would die defending this country from any domestic threats, even if that means i am in a fox hole next to you. (even though by then you'd be a brother as there are no atheists in fox holes )

Having never enlisted, you don't know jack-shit about military service. And if you ain't got the balls to enlist, you shouldn't be bragging about having the balls to get into a foxhole.

(September 29, 2016 at 5:32 am)abaris Wrote:

(September 29, 2016 at 4:59 am)Tazzycorn Wrote: .... along with any oaths used in wtate ceremonies which explicitly reference a deity (eg so help me god).

Isn't there a provision for a secular oath? I mean, the default in my country is also religious, but if you claim to be a non believer, they make you swear without any god. Especially at court.

The technical term is "affirm". It's how I swore into the Air Force ("I do solemnly affirm ..."), and how I've sworn testimony in court.

One is not required to acknowledge any faith in order to give oath here.

(September 29, 2016 at 1:59 pm)RobertE Wrote: As I mentioned in one of my earlier posts, I couldn't give a rats ass how bad some cops are, as long as there are cops on the streets. I mean, they could just turn around and say "stick the job." Imagine a world without the police and no law and order.

There are no police 99.9% of the time.  It hasn't sent anyone around here into a post apocalytpic frenzy. 

Quote:Anyone can walk into your house and take what they want

They -do- that, the sheer existence of police doesn't seem to stop them,

Quote:steal your car,

that too....

Quote:murder anyone they wish,

.....aaaaand that too.

Quote:knowing full well they can get away with it.

Well, everyone hopes that anyway, how much crime do you think police stop?

Quote:Question is, will the liberals be siding with those who have no respect for law and order and take what they please, or will they be begging on their knees for law and order to be restored? I know the response even if it doesn't happen, they would want the law and order to be reinstated.

Is that what we're calling murder apologism now, "respect for law and order"? In any case, people seem to be begging -now- for law and order to be restored. Part of that happening is for cops to stop killing people, summary executions by low lvl government employees is not what law and order looks like. It's what institutional abuse and racism look like.

(September 29, 2016 at 8:54 pm)Rhythm Wrote:  Part of that happening is for cops to stop killing people, summary executions by low lvl government employees is not what law and order looks like.  It's what institutional abuse and racism look like.

dingdingdingding

Just to try and balance this out. Here is a relatively old article where an unarmed white man was shot by police:

http://www.allenbwest.com/michellejesse/...-by-police

When you watch the bodycam video, it is clear for all to see that his right hand behind his back could have concealed a weapon, and the police had every right to shoot. As I said earlier, it doesn't matter if you are black, white or Asian, if you don't comply with simple instructions in English then you are going to get shot. It doesn't take intelligence but simple common sense not to play around with the police when they are trained to shoot to stop.