(October 17, 2016 at 4:39 pm)ChadWooters Wrote:

(October 17, 2016 at 4:22 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: Chad... I see your religious views say "researching RCIA". Are you looking into becoming a Catholic?? If so, let me suggest "Catholic Answers Forums" for you to join.

Yes, I've been thinking about it for a long time, since coming back from Rome last December. I used to listen to the Catholic Answers radio show for a while. They actually kinda turned me off. Catholic culture is still pretty intimidating for me.

Well if you have any questions or just want to discuss philosophy or w/e with some Catholics, I still highly recommend the forum. Even though you didn't like the radio show, I think you'd really get a lot out of the forum discussions! 

(PS - it's also important to differentiate between actual/official Catholic teaching and the opinions of people who are Catholic. I wouldn't be surprised if those radio show hosts were more of the traditionalist type Catholics who can be extremely uptight.)

I don't like swearing as a general rule; I do it if the situation calls for it (if I'm angry or have just dropped something on my foot) but I don't do it as a matter of course, every other word. The reason I don't like it to excess is because it makes the environment feel tangibly negative and aggressive to me. For instance, I once had a girlfriend who could only be described as a chav - sorry if the term is offensive but it gets my meaning across, and I went to her house and her entire family was effing and blinding every other word, and I felt like a fish out of water. The atmosphere just felt so aggressive I wondered if I was gonna make it out of there alive ...because I was the complete opposite... shy, reserved, polite. Anyway I did learn a valuable lesson from that... that contrary to what I'd been brought up to believe there was nothing wrong with it... they were a perfectly loving family... they certainly all had each other's backs... but they just had a different way of talking from what I was used to or felt comfortable with. Everyone in that family swore all the time, right down from the youngest children, up to the parents, but it didn't make any difference to their relationship.

As to why religious people take so much offence at it. Maybe it's a bit of the above... after all I was not long out of Christianity when that occurred... but other than that I don't really know. Somehow swearing in the sense of 'taking the lord's name in vain' seems to have been conflated with any type of swearing. Like the guy in Alien 3 said 'it's alright to say 'shit'... it ain't against god'... when I've said similar to my dad it seems to have come as something of a surprise to him, and gradually his swearing vocabulary has 'improved' (though mainly as a joke, not to be repeated but to be remembered... so far 'piss' and 'crap' but never a shit or a fuck ). So there's that, and I think also the fact that most swearwords have sexual connotations doesn't help for people who have particular hangups about all things sexual... perhaps it's too close for comfort to things they want to keep repressed... or perhaps some sort of fear of 'guilt by association' with god.

(October 17, 2016 at 5:10 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote:

(October 17, 2016 at 4:39 pm)ChadWooters Wrote: Yes, I've been thinking about it for a long time, since coming back from Rome last December. I used to listen to the Catholic Answers radio show for a while. They actually kinda turned me off. Catholic culture is still pretty intimidating for me.

Well if you have any questions or just want to discuss philosophy or w/e with some Catholics, I still highly recommend the forum. Even though you didn't like the radio show, I think you'd really get a lot out of the forum discussions! 

(PS - it's also important to differentiate between actual/official Catholic teaching and the opinions of people who are Catholic. I wouldn't be surprised if those radio show hosts were more of the traditionalist type Catholics who can be extremely uptight.)

Oh and if you decide you wanna talk to a priest, I suggest looking for a Jesuit. They tend to be the more intellectual/philosophical ones who are also more free spirited and down to earth about the faith. I think you would appreciate that. 

(October 17, 2016 at 5:14 pm)Emjay Wrote: As to why religious people take so much offence at it. Maybe it's a bit of the above... after all I was not long out of Christianity when that occurred... but other than that I don't really know. Somehow swearing in the sense of 'taking the lord's name in vain' seems to have been conflated with any type of swearing. Like the guy in Alien 3 said 'it's alright to say 'shit'... it ain't against god'... when I've said similar to my dad it seems to have come as something of a surprise to him, and gradually his swearing vocabulary has 'improved' (though mainly as a joke, not to be repeated but to be remembered... so far 'piss' and 'crap' but never a shit or a fuck ). So there's that, and I think also the fact that most swearwords have sexual connotations doesn't help for people who have particular hangups about all things sexual... perhaps it's too close for comfort to things they want to keep repressed... or perhaps some sort of fear of 'guilt by association' with god.

Yeah, but does he say it with feeling? Intention is 9/10's of a curse.

(October 18, 2016 at 1:27 am)Arkilogue Wrote:

(October 17, 2016 at 5:14 pm)Emjay Wrote: As to why religious people take so much offence at it. Maybe it's a bit of the above... after all I was not long out of Christianity when that occurred... but other than that I don't really know. Somehow swearing in the sense of 'taking the lord's name in vain' seems to have been conflated with any type of swearing. Like the guy in Alien 3 said 'it's alright to say 'shit'... it ain't against god'... when I've said similar to my dad it seems to have come as something of a surprise to him, and gradually his swearing vocabulary has 'improved' (though mainly as a joke, not to be repeated but to be remembered... so far 'piss' and 'crap' but never a shit or a fuck ). So there's that, and I think also the fact that most swearwords have sexual connotations doesn't help for people who have particular hangups about all things sexual... perhaps it's too close for comfort to things they want to keep repressed... or perhaps some sort of fear of 'guilt by association' with god.

Yeah, but does he say it with feeling?  Intention is 9/10's of a curse.

Nah... I've never seen him swear in anger or as a standalone exclamation. Just as a joke to amuse us when we were kids really, and kind of a tradition since then. He's very fluffy for want of a better word... I don't think he wants to face the negative realities of the world so is happy living in a sort of Disney cocoon of wilful ignorance. It's hard enough getting him to watch a PG (UK; Parental Guidance) let alone an 18.

(October 17, 2016 at 11:15 am)Kingpin Wrote: Excellent response CL!  Yes, who you are in your heart is the crux of the issue.

Did God not make you "who you are in your heart?" Why would God judge you for acting consistently with your character that he created?

(October 18, 2016 at 11:26 am)Faith No More Wrote:

(October 17, 2016 at 11:15 am)Kingpin Wrote: Excellent response CL!  Yes, who you are in your heart is the crux of the issue.

Did God not make you "who you are in your heart?"  Why would God judge you for acting consistently with your character that he created?

No. Who we are in our hearts is entirely up to us. We all have our struggles but we can choose to try to fight through them.

(October 18, 2016 at 2:03 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote:

(October 18, 2016 at 11:26 am)Faith No More Wrote: Did God not make you "who you are in your heart?"  Why would God judge you for acting consistently with your character that he created?

No. Who we are in our hearts is entirely up to us. We all have our struggles but we can choose to try to fight through them.

"My son, there are two wolves fighting inside me, one is evil and the other is good."

".....which one will win father?"

"The one I feed."

(October 18, 2016 at 2:03 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: No. Who we are in our hearts is entirely up to us. We all have our struggles but we can choose to try to fight through them.

So, there are things that exist that God didn't create?

And how do you square that with the neuroscience that shows our ability to control our impulses and make proper decisions is dependent upon the structure of our frontal lobe? Every one of us is just a brain injury away from being unable to properly moderate our behavior. How is it fair for God to judge people on their decisions if he made it easier for some to control themselves than for others?

(October 18, 2016 at 2:40 pm)Faith No More Wrote:

(October 18, 2016 at 2:03 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: No. Who we are in our hearts is entirely up to us. We all have our struggles but we can choose to try to fight through them.

So, there are things that exist that God didn't create?

And how do you square that with the neuroscience that shows our ability to control our impulses and make proper decisions is dependent upon the structure of our frontal lobe?  Every one of us is just a brain injury away from being unable to properly moderate our behavior.  How is it fair for God to judge people on their decisions if he made it easier for some to control themselves than for others?

That will be taken into account as well. Like I said, it's about what's in our hearts. If someone who is legitimately insane, for example, blacks out and hurts someone, it doesn't necessarily mean they are bad people.